Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Generally accepted, see BOL above.

So you have no quotes then?

I'll just file it under the "straws Pirate likes to beat AVB with"

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

By all accounts in the end it was.

Actions speak louder than words: Ade was effectively banished.

You are still making it damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

As I say no matter what AVB did you are finding a reason to criticise. It's clear enough from your posts that you have an anti-AVB agenda. Who cares really, when this is the TS thread.

I think I've said enough about this anyway.

Only thing I'm waiting for now is those quotes about Bale having to go t AVB to initiate him being played centrally. If you can't find such quotes well.....

He wasn't banished. He played away at City and a few other Euro games I think. He was left in no mans land. Hence, I am saying the worst of all possible worlds. A disgruntled player kept on the periphery of the squad and played (apparently) only at the behest of others. Really poor from AVB not to properly exert his authority.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So you have no quotes then?

I'll just file it under the "straws Pirate likes to beat AVB with"

File it where you like. That doesn't change a thing.

Do you think it was AVB in his wisdom to first take the decision to play Bale there?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

By all accounts in the end it was.

Actions speak louder than words: Ade was effectively banished.

You are still making it damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

As I say no matter what AVB did you are finding a reason to criticise. It's clear enough from your posts that you have an anti-AVB agenda. Who cares really, when this is the TS thread.

I think I've said enough about this anyway.

Only thing I'm waiting for now is those quotes about Bale having to go t AVB to initiate him being played centrally. If you can't find such quotes well.....

Wow you are getting so excitable you're going to bust a blood vessel. The bottom line in all of this and you and Bol can argue all you like but AVB is gone the club has moved on. This was a decision made by people who knew all the facts regarding Ade, how the team was playing and AVB's state of mind not posters on a board who in all the posts I have read clearly know very little hard facts. The simple truth is whether we agree or disagree the people at the club felt he was not up to the job and therefore with them having all the facts that's good enough for me.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He wasn't banished. He played away at City and a few other Euro games I think. He was left in no mans land. Hence, I am saying the worst of all possible worlds. A disgruntled player kept on the periphery of the squad and played (apparently) only at the behest of others. Really poor from AVB not to properly exert his authority.

But he WAS exerting his authority when he didn't play him. After all we weren't scoring that many goals maybe he was hedging his bets. Would he be the first manager to punish a player before then seeing if he can use him ON HIS TERMS?

Again, seems you are trying every which way to have him damned.

Did Jose undermine his authority by playing Ramos last season at Real?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

File it where you like. That doesn't change a thing.

Do you think it was AVB in his wisdom to first take the decision to play Bale there?

Yes I do. Happy for you to prove me wrong though

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wow you are getting so excitable you're going to bust a blood vessel. The bottom line in all of this and you and Bol can argue all you like but AVB is gone the club has moved on. This was a decision made by people who knew all the facts regarding Ade, how the team was playing and AVB's state of mind not posters on a board who in all the posts I have read clearly know very little hard facts. The simple truth is whether we agree or disagree the people at the club felt he was not up to the job and therefore with them having all the facts that's good enough for me.

Hi Rob; not getting excitable at all; just calling out hypocritical BS as I see it...you wait until we get back to talking about the current manager..

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Hi Rob; not getting excitable at all; just calling out hypocritical BS as I see it...you wait until we get back to talking about the current manager..

Carry on mate it's entertaining. Let's hope we can all get behind the next manager.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Then AVB tells him in no uncertain terms that he won't be playing in any if his teams.

The decision is then Ades to stay and not play or take a hit and move on. The board can always subsidies his wages if they wanted to back AVB on this matter of principle.

I don't doubt that Ade was told he wouldn't be playing - at least not before publicly showing his new found humility to the team and the manager.

I also suspect that Ade couldn't give half a flying ****. He could stay away from club football for the next decade and he'd still get picked for his national team. He'd still get paid by us. And with all that money and all that time I'm sure he could go and find some people to make him feel really important.

That deal is everything he could ever want.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No the appropriate response is to acknowledge that you can't work with said individual and get rid.

Which he very clearly wanted to do. Or are you saying he didn't want to sell him, and actually preferred having him at the club as some disruptive nuisance?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Generally accepted, see BOL above.

Where has this thing about Bale come from though? It started off as a thing about Ade disagreeing with AVB both in private and public, and Bale was brought in to show that another player has had a private meeting, but it's morphed into another thing AVB should be criticised for? I just don't get how.

For one, Bale didn't publicly question the authority of the manager. For another, Bale's performances under AVB lead to him becoming the most expensive player ever. The respect Bale had for AVB was obvious. How is AVB in any way getting criticised for his handling of Bale here? If it's for anything it's an entirely different point to the Ade one, and it seems to be nothing more than AVB didn't play Bale centrally sooner. Bale's performances centrally under Harry weren't consistent or anything to right home about in any way like they were under AVB. If Bale knocked on AVB's door, it wasn't to demand to play central and AVB let it happen and Bale did it all. Bale knocked on his door, thought he could be getting more involved, and both he and AVB figured out a way to get the best out of it. Bale talked a lot last season about how AVB's tactical work was helping him a lot.

I really don't see where AVB gets criticised on Bale at all.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Which he very clearly wanted to do. Or are you saying he didn't want to sell him, and actually preferred having him at the club as some disruptive nuisance?

BOL, I don't know why you bother. Just accept that Pirate hates everything to do with AVB, attributes everything wrong with our play these days to AVB (e.g. he probably blames yesterday's goals on AVB) and move on to discuss TS (or our next manager).

The fact that the Pirate still hasn't given any evidence to back up his statement that Bale initiated that AVB move him more centrally (saying instead that it 'was generally accepted') should tell you all you need to know.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So much bloviating and assertions of certainty from people who KNOW very little about what has actually gone on.
This reads like some sort of giant therapy session.

It's great to pop in and read from time to time

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Which he very clearly wanted to do. Or are you saying he didn't want to sell him, and actually preferred having him at the club as some disruptive nuisance?

I am saying he didn't make it crystal clear to him that it was my way or the highway. Yes, he wanted him sold ( and according to Stef) never wanted him in the first place. Once he had him, he should have recognized he was the sort of individual who needed his ego massaging and smoke puffed up his **** to get the best out if him. Harry and TS knew this and got the requisite performances out of him. AVB either failed to recognize this or wouldn't do it. He often preferred Defoe to Ade and asked Ade to play second fiddle to Bale last season. Chelsea away apart, this method of managing Ade clearly doesn't work.

This season, once he had questioned his authority publicly, AVB should have got rid completely. Either sold ( and backed to the hilt by the club to subsidise his exit ( see Andy Carroll and Brendan Rodgers) OR banished completely from the team, the squad and the club, never to play again ( see Japp Stam and SAF). AVB did neither of these. That is my criticism of him in his handling of Ade. He wasn't strong enough.

Regarding Bale, perhaps you would like to let the big Eze know that it was Bale that told AVB he wanted to play in the centre. I have never said that Bale didn't improve under AVB, as he clearly did, but how much of that was down to the player himself and how much down to the manager we cannot know. What we do know, is that Bale spent a considerable time after training perfecting his shooting and improving his dead ball delivery.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes I do. Happy for you to prove me wrong though

It wasn't AVB at all who first played Bale centrally. It was Harry. Against Norwich away.

Unless you can find me quotes to prove me wrong.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Where has this thing about Bale come from though? It started off as a thing about Ade disagreeing with AVB both in private and public, and Bale was brought in to show that another player has had a private meeting, but it's morphed into another thing AVB should be criticised for? I just don't get how.

For one, Bale didn't publicly question the authority of the manager. For another, Bale's performances under AVB lead to him becoming the most expensive player ever. The respect Bale had for AVB was obvious. How is AVB in any way getting criticised for his handling of Bale here? If it's for anything it's an entirely different point to the Ade one, and it seems to be nothing more than AVB didn't play Bale centrally sooner. Bale's performances centrally under Harry weren't consistent or anything to right home about in any way like they were under AVB. If Bale knocked on AVB's door, it wasn't to demand to play central and AVB let it happen and Bale did it all. Bale knocked on his door, thought he could be getting more involved, and both he and AVB figured out a way to get the best out of it. Bale talked a lot last season about how AVB's tactical work was helping him a lot.

I really don't see where AVB gets criticised on Bale at all.

I think it was you that first brought up Bale in this context as an example of how a manager listened to his players!

Who exactly is criticizing AVB's management of Bale? If you are asserting it was me, please show me where I have done so.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Where has this thing about Bale come from though? It started off as a thing about Ade disagreeing with AVB both in private and public, and Bale was brought in to show that another player has had a private meeting, but it's morphed into another thing AVB should be criticised for? I just don't get how.

For one, Bale didn't publicly question the authority of the manager. For another, Bale's performances under AVB lead to him becoming the most expensive player ever. The respect Bale had for AVB was obvious. How is AVB in any way getting criticised for his handling of Bale here? If it's for anything it's an entirely different point to the Ade one, and it seems to be nothing more than AVB didn't play Bale centrally sooner. Bale's performances centrally under Harry weren't consistent or anything to right home about in any way like they were under AVB. If Bale knocked on AVB's door, it wasn't to demand to play central and AVB let it happen and Bale did it all. Bale knocked on his door, thought he could be getting more involved, and both he and AVB figured out a way to get the best out of it. Bale talked a lot last season about how AVB's tactical work was helping him a lot.

I really don't see where AVB gets criticised on Bale at all.

I brought the Bale thing up, but it wasn't to criticise AVB, it was to illustrate a point that if Bale had done the same as Ade (providing AVB disagreed with him wanting to be given more freedom) that 99% of people on here would be hammering AVB for leaving him out. Different rules for different people.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i wonder how many people using Ade as a stick to beat AVB with were actually of a similar opinion at the time?

seem to recall most people wanting the guy got rid of asap

To be fair, we know more about it now.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It wasn't AVB at all who first played Bale centrally. It was Harry. Against Norwich away.

Unless you can find me quotes to prove me wrong.

Wow. You truly have flipped haven't you. You seem to be getting twisted by your own posts!

Let's try again and keep the conext here.

In this thread YOU (i.e. Pirate55) have stated that in the middle of AVB's first season, i.e. 2012/13 (NOT a PREVIOUS season when we were managed by Harry, Ramos or Jol) AVB moved Bale from the left-sided attacking position THAT HE MAINLY PLAYED FROM HE START OF THE SEASON to the central position that he played to devestating effect in the latter part of the season purely because Bale requested to AVB that his playing position be changed as such.

I say that's tosh and that AVB took that decision himself from a managerial and tactical point of view because he felt it best for the team (as Defoe was staring to mis-fire as he usually did and Ade was unreliable and off to the ACN).

I invite you AGAIN to show me the quotes/evidence that IN 2012/13 the decision to move Bale from the left-side to a more central position was made because Bale asked AVB to do so.
I assume you cannot....i await to be proved wrong..

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wow. You truly have flipped haven't you. You seem to be getting twisted by your own posts!

Let's try again and keep the conext here.

In this thread YOU (i.e. Pirate55) have stated that in the middle of AVB's first season, i.e. 2012/13 (NOT a PREVIOUS season when we were managed by Harry, Ramos or Jol) AVB moved Bale from the left-sided attacking position THAT HE MAINLY PLAYED FROM HE START OF THE SEASON to the central position that he played to devestating effect in the latter part of the season purely because Bale requested to AVB that his playing position be changed as such.

I say that's tosh and that AVB took that decision himself from a managerial and tactical point of view because he felt it best for the team (as Defoe was staring to mis-fire as he usually did and Ade was unreliable and off to the ACN).

I invite you AGAIN to show me the quotes/evidence that IN 2012/13 the decision to move Bale from the left-side to a more central position was made because Bale asked AVB to do so.
I assume you cannot....i await to be proved wrong..

You are so proving yourself wrong, yet again, it is hardly sport any more for me to do so. You ( ie Glorygloryeze) said it was AVB who FIRST played Bale centrally. I showed you it was Harry. Don't you remember all those " Bale, he plays on the left" chants under Harry , by a sizeable section of our support who didn't want him to play centrally.

You have lost the plot with your rose tinted views on AVB. Your statement that we actually played quite well in the 6-0 defeat at City clearly outs you in this respect.