Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ta. Interesting he says the pitches in England were wet and muddy, matches had to be called off and you had to knock it long as you couldn't play through all the mud. Maybe that is why countries with drier climates tend to be more technical.

What's Holland's excuse? And Germany (since 2004)?

Tbh I'd say the historic reason is as much that in southern european and south american countries it was too hot to run about at 100 mph, so they learnt close control and ball retention.

The embarrassing thing is that over the last 20 years while latin countries started working harder, and northern european teams started becoming more technical, English football just buried its head in the sand.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Regarding the pitch debate I think the weather=rain=mud=sloggers thing might be a red herring, might just be me, but think back to your formative football years, where did you first play, where did you hone your touch repeatedly for a couple of hours every day, rain or shine? I expect the answer to that for most people in the uk is, the school playground, flat Tarmac, the ball spinning and bouncing all over the place at pace, probably a cheap ball that was slightly too light as well, maybe even a tennis ball on occasion.

A lot of young players now grow up playing 6-a-side instead, so they are more technical but when they try 11-a-side on grass they are all over the place positionally (I think Kyle Walker is of this generation - I know he was/is a big 6-a-side player).

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bored with the stats debate, this is much more interesting

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ts-of-a-patient-start-at-White-Hart-Lane.html

Townsend on Sherwood.............."In that way he’s been a huge influence in my career. Hopefully now he’s in charge I can start repaying his faith, break back into the Spurs team and start scoring goals for him. And he likes goals. He’d always rather win 5-4 than 1-0. I think that’s the Tottenham way really.”=D>

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bored with the stats debate, this is much more interesting

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ts-of-a-patient-start-at-White-Hart-Lane.html

It's an interesting article, seems Timmeh 's very good with the youth teams.

If only we had a role for him where he could use those skills.......

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk

 

[Yermiyahu]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Townsend on Sherwood.............."In that way he’s been a huge influence in my career. Hopefully now he’s in charge I can start repaying his faith, break back into the Spurs team and start scoring goals for him. And he likes goals. He’d always rather win 5-4 than 1-0. I think that’s the Tottenham way really.”=D>

=D>=D>

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

A lot of young players now grow up playing 6-a-side instead, so they are more technical but when they try 11-a-side on grass they are all over the place positionally (I think Kyle Walker is of this generation - I know he was/is a big 6-a-side player).

Let me ask you something about Walker…have you ever considered the amount of ground to his left he has to cover, repeatedly, for his partnering CB, and further, he is told to push up and attack? I hear this complaint about Walker's positional play occasionally, and it lacks context. In fact, other than his brainfarts (which have rapidly decreased as he's got older, and will hopefully continue to decrease until there are nowt) I cannot remember a goal he has been positionally responsible for. Don't even try to raise the Goons in the cup/Cazorla as I will bore us all senseless with a breakdown as to why it was NOT his fault!

In the modern game, with full-backs pushing on more than ever, who do you consider to be the top 3 in the premiership? Now, the FB to properly wonder about is Rose, right? And I sincerely hope Timbo can sort that situation out by Friday (was hopoing for something in time for tomorrow, but there we go…)

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Let me ask you something about Walker…have you ever considered the amount of ground to his left he has to cover, repeatedly, for his partnering CB, and further, he is told to push up and attack? I hear this complaint about Walker's positional play occasionally, and it lacks context. In fact, other than his brainfarts (which have rapidly decreased as he's got older, and will hopefully continue to decrease until there are nowt) I cannot remember a goal he has been positionally responsible for. Don't even try to raise the Goons in the cup/Cazorla as I will bore us all senseless with a breakdown as to why it was NOT his fault!

In the modern game, with full-backs pushing on more than ever, who do you consider to be the top 3 in the premiership? Now, the FB to properly wonder about is Rose, right? And I sincerely hope Timbo can sort that situation out by Friday (was hopoing for something in time for tomorrow, but there we go…)

I didn't mean that as a criticism of Walker actually - I'm a big fan of his.

I just meant as a young player that was a big fault in his game. But it was something he's clearly worked a lot on and it isn't a weakness anymore.

It was just a general comment on young English players now growing up playing more 6-a-side on astroturf than 11-a-side on grass. I used Walker as an example more because I knew that was the case (I play on the same pitches as him and his mates when he's on summer break).

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To touch back on the pitch debate though, I know many a player who are immense on five aside pitches but lack the...intelligence I guess to do things on an 11 a side pitch. Intelligence might not be the right term, but somehow they fail to adapt and impose themselves on a larger pitch, almost as if the extra space they have to play in doesn't quite work out for them, it's hard to explain but it's just something I notice with some players I know, not all. The small sided games help with close control and working in close quarters, but I still think you need a bit of both. Even some grounds in the EPL bobble up over the winter.

As for TS, I liked his comment on Chiriches.

Sherwood said: "I saw it. He had a weekend off. He has got to play well tomorrow. We won't fine him. He wasn't breaking rules. He was unsteady on his legs. It's windy over there!"

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Townsend on Sherwood.............."In that way he’s been a huge influence in my career. Hopefully now he’s in charge I can start repaying his faith, break back into the Spurs team and start scoring goals for him. And he likes goals. He’d always rather win 5-4 than 1-0. I think that’s the Tottenham way really.”=D>

personally, I think that's the difference between us and the good sides, that sentence needs to stop at "he'd always rather win"

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

personally, I think that's the difference between us and the good sides, that sentence needs to stop at "he'd always rather win"

Really? I think AVB would stop there as well.....

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sort of. The argument is over whether our results are better than our performances suggest they should be (stats say they are) and whether under AVB they were worse than the stats say they should have been (again, stats say they were).

That is partly backed up by the correct assertion you've made, that there's no way we can keep up this win rate. That our team + our manager does not equal a PL 80% win rate.

I don't think anyone would dispute the 2nd part of that. For the first. were they? AVB had 54 league games, 2 pre-seasons, taking over a team that had finished 4th and he could not manage 16 points in 6 games (our current run) during any period of those 54 games. So this isn't to say much on Sherwood. He could still end up producing much worse results overall. However, it already reflects poorly on AVBs tenure that a 'complete amateur' can come in to a team in 7th, at the near halfway point, who've just been battered 0-5 at home and then produce something that he couldn't manage over 54 games with much kinder circumstances.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I didn't mean that as a criticism of Walker actually - I'm a big fan of his.

I just meant as a young player that was a big fault in his game. But it was something he's clearly worked a lot on and it isn't a weakness anymore.

It was just a general comment on young English players now growing up playing more 6-a-side on astroturf than 11-a-side on grass. I used Walker as an example more because I knew that was the case (I play on the same pitches as him and his mates when he's on summer break).

Fair enough, apologies mate, it came across differently.

I am absolutely in favor of micro and 6-a-side on astroturf for young english players as it WILL offer far greater technical skill and hopefully give us a generation of 'total footballers' in the not-too-distant future. I think positional sense in skillful players is easily coached by top coaches. I happen to think AVB was 70% on the way to becoming one of our best for decades, but that inability to adjust long-term plans and foundations to accommodate a short-term goal or two so as ground can be broken and harmony restored was his first major undoing, added to a lack of experience in how to handle the man management side of things. When it was good it was very very good, but he didn't deal with problems well.

Sherwood said something yesterday about the City match, something along the lines of these games coming down to 'winning your personal battles' which was both a highly accurate, and intriguingly malleable, statement. In so many senses he is absolutely right…of course, if he could please coach Danny Rose to win the personal battle with his own concentration, I'd be delighted!

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't think anyone would dispute the 2nd part of that. For the first. were they? AVB had 54 league games, 2 pre-seasons, taking over a team that had finished 4th and he could not manage 16 points in 6 games (our current run) during any period of those 54 games. So this isn't to say much on Sherwood. He could still end up producing much worse results overall. However, it already reflects poorly on AVBs tenure that a 'complete amateur' can come in to a team in 7th, at the near halfway point, who've just been battered 0-5 at home and then produce something that he couldn't manage over 54 games with much kinder circumstances.

What a load of tosh. Do you really have to stretch this far to have a dig at AVB?

He DID manage 28 from 36.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't think anyone would dispute the 2nd part of that. For the first. were they? AVB had 54 league games, 2 pre-seasons, taking over a team that had finished 4th and he could not manage 16 points in 6 games (our current run) during any period of those 54 games. So this isn't to say much on Sherwood. He could still end up producing much worse results overall. However, it already reflects poorly on AVBs tenure that a 'complete amateur' can come in to a team in 7th, at the near halfway point, who've just been battered 0-5 at home and then produce something that he couldn't manage over 54 games with much kinder circumstances.

you have to take into account strength of schedule

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

you have to take into account strength of schedule

Yes but surely that is obviously already the case? AVB had 54 league games which surely would have meant runs of relatively easy games and relatively more difficult games at various points and at no point did we achieve 16 points from any 6 game run.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What a load of tosh. Do you really have to stretch this far to have a dig at AVB?

He DID manage 28 from 36.

So 2.33 points per game? Versus the current run of 2.66 points per game? Of course, the longer term stat is more reliable than the shorter but this wasn't the point I was making anyway. I was pointing out that Sherwood's 6 game run is better than any AVB 6 game run.

Edit - the above said, I can't see where we picked up 28 points from a possible 36 at any point under AVB? Best that we managed was 25 from 36. The run starting after the 2-5 defeat at Arsenal. So more like 2.08 points per game. We'd virtually be on par with that even if we lost our next 2 games. 9 points from the next 6 would match it exactly over 12 games.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes but surely that is obviously already the case? AVB had 54 league games which surely would have meant runs of relatively easy games and relatively more difficult games at various points and at no point did we achieve 16 points from any 6 game run.

last season we got a record points total, so I think we did well overall, without going back over last seasons fixtures i'm guessing we didn't have a run of games at any point which saw us play 6 poor/out of form teams as we have done recently, that was certainly the case in the early part of the season

I don't want this to seem like a dig at TS because you still have to go out there and win, but I think most of us would be pretty ****ed off had he scored any less points than that as they were all games where we would expect to win, if anything it should have been more as we dropped 2 against west brom

if we win tonight that 3 from 1 will be far more impressive than the 16 from 6

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

last season we got a record points total, so I think we did well overall, without going back over last seasons fixtures i'm guessing we didn't have a run of games at any point which saw us play 6 poor/out of form teams as we have done recently, that was certainly the case in the early part of the season

I think it was actually a tougher run than people realise. Man Utd are 4th in the form table for the last 8 games. They've won 6 of the last 8. The only defeats? Chelsea away and us at home. So that result even better in that context. Crystal Palace are 10th, so doing far better than their position. Stoke are 12th and WBA 13th. So again, both marginally doing better than their overall position. Southampton are near enough on par and if you're going to be finishing 4th then you should be winning at the 9th place club.

 

[ringo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Let me ask you something about Walker…have you ever considered the amount of ground to his left he has to cover, repeatedly, for his partnering CB, and further, he is told to push up and attack? I hear this complaint about Walker's positional play occasionally, and it lacks context. In fact, other than his brainfarts (which have rapidly decreased as he's got older, and will hopefully continue to decrease until there are nowt) I cannot remember a goal he has been positionally responsible for. Don't even try to raise the Goons in the cup/Cazorla as I will bore us all senseless with a breakdown as to why it was NOT his fault!

In the modern game, with full-backs pushing on more than ever, who do you consider to be the top 3 in the premiership? Now, the FB to properly wonder about is Rose, right? And I sincerely hope Timbo can sort that situation out by Friday (was hopoing for something in time for tomorrow, but there we go…)

The difficulty for the full backs is that along with the #10 position it is probably one of the hardest to play positionally, but more exposed then the #10 when you get it wrong. I always think the decision of when and whether to go out tight to the opposite midfielder, is a very difficult one. Get it wrong and you caught by the ball between you and the CB.

Plus when you are looking along the line for the offside, you can't see their wide player behind you, which is unsettling. And there is all the overlapping and interplay, swapping marker with your midfielder in front of you. It is a tricky position.

I do think that there is something in the challenge of transitioning from small sided games in tight spaces, which definitely improve ball skills, to the positional challenges involved with bigger pitches, though. A mixture of both is best. (Slightly uneven sided games are quite useful too.)

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bloody hell. That is a desperate stat to try and bash AVB and praise Sherwood. People select the tiny fragments to suit their agenda don't they? Anyway, I wasn't happy about Sherwood being manager, I thought early on he had a lot of lock and cam dup tactically short against Aresneal; but we were getting the results and ATTACKING so I didn't complain too much. Swansea was a a real eye opener to see he maybe has more than I thought. We have to support him, and not let his at times idiotic press conferences (though I do find him entertaining) and any prejudgements we had/have, support the team, support him, and maybe he could be a mini genius waiting to stout out. He's never done this before, been thrown in the deep end, and he's doing alright!!

Saying that, tonight will be a big test. I worry about him against excellent opposition. Has he got enough tactically to play against the best?