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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Finney Is Back said:
A fair few of those I go with have stopped attending. A while ago they would put their tickets on the exchange and then end up going if the ticket didn't sell. More and more frequently these days the tickets aren't selling, I suspect because the football is so eye gougingly bad.

Recently those same chaps haven't bothered to go even when the ticket doesn't sell. These are guys that have watched us for years through thick and (mainly) thin.

I must say that I also have a reduced desire to attend lately. What is served up just doesn't match the 4+ hours that it takes out of the day. We are a horrible, negative side to watch. The sort of team that we all used to make claims like "It might get results but I wouldn't want to watch that football" about.... Only in our instance, as well as being terribly boring to watch, it doesn't get the results either.
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Very very much the same
The odd thing is those I’ve seen socially backing the manager are ones who don’t go …
This club is a huge huge part of my life and I’m rapidly falling out of love for it
Bad football that has results is tolerable
Bad football and no results isn’t
Then add in the lack of any real connection with the players and leadership and it’s a toxic mess
 
TF is likely Lange's man....if Fab goes, surely it means TF and Lange will be in it for the long haul and he'd only go if/when it looks like European qualification is out of the question....or relegation is possible...?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Very very much the same
The odd thing is those I’ve seen socially backing the manager are ones who don’t go …
This club is a huge huge part of my life and I’m rapidly falling out of love for it
Bad football that has results is tolerable
Bad football and no results isn’t
Then add in the lack of any real connection with the players and leadership and it’s a toxic mess
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Sadly, this is what happens when you are lucky to have great players land in our lap all at the right times (Poch years) and then you show little ambition. It has fully caught up with us recently.
....sigh....
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Those experienced/international players don't have the key attributes of the players missing though. If Romero, Maddison and Kudus were all out i'd have the same opinion as you as despite being big losses theyre in different areas of the pitch and you have adequate cover.

However both our main play makers are out and Solanke's hold up play and linking is not matched by any of our other forwards so basically your entire ability to make the play has been taken out the team and while players like Bentancur and co are "experienced internationals" they can't do what the players out can do and nor were they ever expected to.

Its all very well saying Frank has no plan in terms of attacking play. And he does not appear to have one that works. But its very easy to press us out of our rythmn as all of our players that allow us to easily beat a press are unavailable and have been all season.

As Mike Tyson said, its fine having a plan until you're punched in the face.
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You can say this until you are blue in the face it won't matter. There is a strong correlation between those who felt that Ange should have been given more time and those who are now criticising TF most strongly. It's not everyone in that group of course.

I keep reading that the squad is better than last season and that just makes me shake my head in disbelief. It would be if Deki, Madders and Solanke were starting regularly alongside those brought in. But the long term injuries might as well have been transferred out of the club. It's been the same effect so far this season. I can't understand why that is not obvious.

You can see the nervousness in the players manifesting itself in so many individual mistakes that are costing us goals. And when these are punished the players naturally become more risk averse. It's so predictable, and I don't think we are currently executing TF's preferred style. I think there are deeper reasons for the way we are playing. And the more players are booed the more nervous they will be in possession, especially at home. This is a manager that has developed so many attack minded players, players who were then sold for big fees to other clubs.

TF will take responsibility for our results. But I am sure, as well as managing our injuries pretty well, he is also trying to build the confidence of players.

I am confident TF will get this right. But he needs time. We change managers now and the new manager has exactly the same issues to resolve. Just my opinion of course.
 
thfcsteff said:
I'll speak personally and not for @Finney Is Back ...I'll put that stat aside and focus on Ange's awful portion of it. Seeing us sticking to the same philosophy whether (for example) Archie Gray was at CB or Cristian Romero gave me great hope that we were bedding in a culture. Sometimes the performances were great, albeit when he had to regularly field sides with Fraser Forster in goal and several teenagers who simply had to step up, that was hard.
The injuries were shocking.
I personally believe many were still dealing with that ludicrously timed World Cup's fall out, added to the other rampant run of games. Seeing that there was an adjustment in order to win the Europa League? That, added to the overall style, added to the creation of a squad which actually got over the line despite no Maddison, Deki or Bergvall, was enough to help me personally override the league form and write it off as part of an injury-drenched anomaly.
I personally would've liked to see where this journey went. My preference. I am aware of other opinions, all good.

At the time of the names swirling around, I said of all of them I felt Frank was the best fit for for our club and the way it was set-up. A team member. A boardoom gent. A good communicator and a man with a higher coaching ceiling it seemed. I focussed on his Brentford side which went up style-wise, not the PL Brentford. I hoped we'd see strong signs of that Brentford from their promotion year, only with our squad and club resources. Sadly it has not happened, and again, in fairness to Frank, the boardroom he signed up for has had many changes (albeit his mate Lange is in a strong position still).
So trust me, I want to believe. I just need a sign that our destination is not to become a permanent counter-attacking side.
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What performances do you think were great? We gubbed City but we did that again this season.

One of my observations during Ange's reign was that for a reported style of football that was free flowing and attacking, we wasn't. We had moments where we'd build a nice attack at speed, but I can't really recall too many 90 min performances?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Thanks.

Just to clarify as well as selling Bentancur, are you saying you'd also sell Odobert, BJ, Vicario and Dragusin?
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Haven't read on yet so perhaps others answered this well.

For me, it's quite simple. We have a stacked squad with 2 players per position. That includes LB where Davies takes the second slot. We cannot afford to bring new players in unless we sacrifice 1st teamers in the same process. That doesn't all have to be in one window obviously. I would also say that an addition could come from our own academy rather than the transfer market.

So coming back to the names I mentioned.

Vic - only if we can get top drawer coming the other direction. I think Frank will want a bigger calming influence at the base of our team.

Davies - it's finally time for him to say his goodbyes. We need a leftie LB and we often suffer because we don't have one.

Dragusin - this one will be interesting. Vuskovic waits in the wings and Takai is new to the club. Phillips and Dorrington also out on loan. For me, Dragusin hasn't done much wrong and in some ways is our best box defender. I still think he'll want to move on and we won't stand in his way.

Bentancur / Palhinha - I think we need to upgrade both Bents and Pal in the next windows. Pal is obviously on loan so that ones easy.

Odobert - I don't think this guy will ever have the end product required for where we're going. I still think if we had a player on the left that is equivalent to Kudus then our fortunes change. Having a real double threat from the wide areas would make us such a tougher team to play against.

Johnson - I just don't think he fits this current Spurs. He's a moments player and we need a 90 mins player. I could be wrong but think it might be better for player and club if we separate. There's also a decision to make with Moore. Does he get one more loan or do we get him in the squad next season.

Richi - one year left on his contract. I think we convert Muani to a permie deal. Then we have to decide whether any opf the younger players can backfill Richi's squad slot or whether we need to go big and buy a striker.

By Aug 26, I'd be OK if all of these guys have been moved on. Of these 8 names, I'm hoping 3 would be covered by our youth products.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
A bottom end of mid table squad?? Did they really say that? I’ll try and have a listen but that also seems insane to me.

I think it’s worth reminding we finished 5th with a much worse squad a year before winning a European trophy. I agree that things will take time and I’m willing to see if by the end of the season we are consistently getting what Frank wants. But to write these players off right now at the beginning of the transition to Frank as bottom end of mid table I think is completely ridiculous.
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Predicting where the quality of a squad fits in table wise is a mugs game this season.
Positions 3rd-17th are as fluid as it's ever been.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Except Tottenham where our highest point in 40 years resulted in nothing but glorious failure while our lowest point resulted in a trophy.

What a club…
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Strange ain’t it
2 of the most engaging games I’ve been 2 in recent years were the Chelsea 9 man loss and Saturday for differing reasons but similar circumstances
Both defeats and both games that cost us/may cost us heavily
Football match going is about being part of the collective and we haven’t had many moments in reality like that
 
Finney Is Back said:
A fair few of those I go with have stopped attending. A while ago they would put their tickets on the exchange and then end up going if the ticket didn't sell. More and more frequently these days the tickets aren't selling, I suspect because the football is so eye gougingly bad.

Recently those same chaps haven't bothered to go even when the ticket doesn't sell. These are guys that have watched us for years through thick and (mainly) thin.

I must say that I also have a reduced desire to attend lately. What is served up just doesn't match the 4+ hours that it takes out of the day. We are a horrible, negative side to watch. The sort of team that we all used to make claims like "It might get results but I wouldn't want to watch that football" about.... Only in our instance, as well as being terribly boring to watch, it doesn't get the results either.
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We've been brick at home for a full calendar year, one of the areas I think Frank is unlucky is he is managing us on the back end of that year and seems to be getting the flack for the whole year, completely ignoring the start of the year.

He could resolve it by winning games of course.
 
Legohamster said:
We've been brick at home for a full calendar year, one of the areas I think Frank is unlucky is he is managing us on the back end of that year and seems to be getting the flack for the whole year, completely ignoring the start of the year.

He could resolve it by winning games of course.
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Maybe
But did you see his home record at Brentford… it’s equally bad
He is a manager who has done that .. they win away or home, not both in streaks
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Maybe
But did you see his home record at Brentford… it’s equally bad
He is a manager who has done that .. they win away or home, not both in streaks
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Not really the point.

Fans are not going because of Franks home form with Brentford, they are not going because the chances are they spend £70 for us to lose and has been the case for a year.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
Strange ain’t it
2 of the most engaging games I’ve been 2 in recent years were the Chelsea 9 man loss and Saturday for differing reasons but similar circumstances
Both defeats and both games that cost us/may cost us heavily
Football match going is about being part of the collective and we haven’t had many moments in reality like that
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, I get it mate.

I've said it before but one of my best match going days was the abject 3-0 defeat to Chelsea under Nuno the day Jimmy Greaves died. Not for the game. Afterwards, I went to the Number 8 and a bunch of us, pretty much complete strangers, just drank, sang and danced the night away. We sang endlessly about Tottenham past, present and future - was pure tribalism and the connection was real. It didn't matter that we lost, it didn't matter that we were (are) brick, it just mattered that we were all in it together.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
But how you get credit in the bank is by showing performances
Even Ange who many claim was clueless got that
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I honestly can’t remember many good performances under Ange after the first spell. In the Liverpool match thread yesterday I posted the highlights from our 3-6 loss to them around this time last year as it popped up when I was looking for the highlights of Saturday’s game. I’d blanked it from my memory - with good reason.

Bedfordspurs said:
But he did start well
With a small squad
Having lost the best player he had
He got us 5th
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He had Son still playing well at that stage, along with a fit Maddison and Kulu - and no European football to worry about. We saw what happened when he did.
 
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