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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

thfcsteff said:
I think you’re being short-sighted and not recognising the coach involved.

Poch would absolutely have improved Porro in the defensive area. same with Romero. If you cannot see how Poch would’ve adored Romero, then I cannot help you. Romero is a better player than Alderweireld, who looked better than he was precisely because he had Poch as manager. As for Walker, Poch was happy enough to sell him whether we agree or not. Porro would again have been a player that would’ve thrived under Poch’s tutelage, and would certainly have been better than Trippier. Let’s hope we don’t get our Pedro pocket picked by Pep (word is he is sniffing for him to return)…

I will concede that Bergvall over Wanyama is funny (different profiles and mischief-making on my part) however Bergvall as a replacement for Dembele when hurt would certainly have been something I think Poch would’ve enthusiastically entertained.

Of course you won’t agree because you think we have a bunch of carthorses.
There is no argument that this squad is not Poch 2016/17, but it is far better than what is being said IMO…
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I watched Toby play for Ajax, Athletico, Southampton and Spurs. Poch didn't make him loon better than he was, that's actually the defender he was. Romero isn't even half the defender that Toby was. I actually think you're bonkers, no disrespect intended. 🤣

Porro is the only possibility but the man can't defend so I don't know if Poch would have even been I tested but he's the most likely especially if in our alternate it was him or Trippier (who also couldn't defend and Pich didn't I prove him).
 
thfcsteff said:
I think Poch would’ve quickly improved several of these players to a standard he’d have chosen for the first 11. I think Romero is a fine example of this, and am baffled by people who don’t see that as a clear possibility. I liked Toby, but if you gave Romero that side and manager, he’d have been a world beater.
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There's still time...
 
Bishop said:
I watched Toby play for Ajax, Athletico, Southampton and Spurs. Poch didn't make him loon better than he was, that's actually the defender he was. Romero isn't even half the defender that Toby was. I actually think you're bonkers, no disrespect intended. 🤣

Porro is the only possibility but the man can't defend so I don't know if Poch would have even been I tested but he's the most likely especially if in our alternate it was him or Trippier (who also couldn't defend and Pich didn't I prove him).
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Romero is a better footballer than Toby was (not sure what you mean when you say you watched him at his previous clubs, do you mean regularly? I also saw him across his career before us). The system he played in with Poch suited him perfectly. He started to go off the boil in 2018/19. Romero’s ceiling is higher than we are seeing, and I think Poch would’ve brought it out. So no disrespect taken, I just disagree with you. And if you think I’m bonkers picking a World Cup/Copa America/Europa League winning player, I’ll take that as a compliment ;-)
 
Anyway, fun sub-topic but this is Thomas’ thread and as such let’s return to it.

Delighted to see him defend VdV so vociferously against Slot’s flimflam in today’s presser, well done that man! And kudos to him too for maintaining decorum amidst some increasing turbulence.
 
Raziel said:
It feels an awfully basic/naïve accusation but I'm not sure what a better passer at DM does for us, is it get it to them and hope? same as a better CF than Richi, just hoping for a better conversion rate? how does that help the team dominate and create a consistent system to win?
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I think it is obvious, a better deep passer gets the ball to Kudus and Xavi faster. We saw that when Archie Gray played against Brentford alongside Bents. A better number 9 than Richi holds onto the ball more efficiently so we can progress attacks, rather than losing possession and have the opposition coming back at us so quickly. It's also pressing from the front we miss.

Edit: seriously watch Brentford last season they scoring goals for fun and the football was quick and progressive.
 
thfcsteff said:
I disagree.
Alderweireld was really good but Poch was his manager. Romero is a superior footballer technically. I think Poch would’ve loved Romero, loved him.
Walker and Porro? In retrospect Walker has been great (being managed by Pep and Poch did not harm his career). I remember Walker getting blasted here for being positionally naive many times. The knock was that he uses his pace to bail him out.
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Can only judge on what we have seen of them - maybe Poch would have improved their game, maybe he wouldn't but right now I'd swap all 3 for the players from 16/17 in a heartbeat
 
Bishop said:
I watched Toby play for Ajax, Athletico, Southampton and Spurs. Poch didn't make him loon better than he was, that's actually the defender he was. Romero isn't even half the defender that Toby was. I actually think you're bonkers, no disrespect intended. 🤣

Porro is the only possibility but the man can't defend so I don't know if Poch would have even been I tested but he's the most likely especially if in our alternate it was him or Trippier (who also couldn't defend and Pich didn't I prove him).
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What Poch did was put Wanyama and Dembele in front of that defence which meant nothing got through!
 
Bishop said:
But he doesn't actually start for his country, and his country are crap these days with poor options up front. Its an irrelevant point.

On the topic of style, for clarity i've said multiple times I believe someone else can have us playing more progressively, so by no means do I think this current style is the only way we can play. Just last season, Ange had us in a different setup. What i'm actually saying is Frank, Ange, Pep, Klopp or Jesus himself isn't going to make this average group of players capable of playing open, progressive football effectively and to a high degree. For that and that is what I want we need to improve the quality of the players because as I said earlier which one of these guys is getting into our 2015-2017 teams?
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But why is that the question? why is the question do these players get into the best Spurs team of the last 30 odd years?

The question is, as it was at the end of last season, is this team better than 12th-17th in the league? how many teams in the league would swap 11 for 11 with us, how many would we want their 11? and when you look at that perspective you realize the last 18 months of underachievement.
 
Raziel said:
But why is that the question? why is the question do these players get into the best Spurs team of the last 30 odd years?

The question is, as it was at the end of last season, is this team better than 12th-17th in the league? how many teams in the league would swap 11 for 11 with us, how many would we want their 11? and when you look at that perspective you realize the last 18 months of underachievement.
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I used that team because it's a comparison of where we want to be and team that played the football we want to see.

I'm not particularly interested honestly in getting a team of a top 6 standing. In reality I want a side that title challenging and fudge it title winning so that the standard I'm interested in comparing too.

I agree we've underperformed but even if we performed to our level, that level is still too low imo.

Unlike
 
Raziel said:
But why is that the question? why is the question do these players get into the best Spurs team of the last 30 odd years?

The question is, as it was at the end of last season, is this team better than 12th-17th in the league? how many teams in the league would swap 11 for 11 with us, how many would we want their 11? and when you look at that perspective you realize the last 18 months of underachievement.
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Are you saying would a team above is in the league maybe swap their players for ours
Italys 2nd choice keeper and left back
Spains right back
Argentina’s CB
Holland’s CB and CM/LM
One of englands full backs (not sure if he will make the WC squad)
Uruguay’s CM
Portugal’s CM (yeah I know he doesn’t start every game)
Swedish CM with 6 international games at the age of 19
Ghana’s main attacking outlet
Brazil’s striker who isn’t always first choice and is clearly limited but also joint 4th highest scorer in the league this season so far (how)
A French attacker who returned to the last squad whisky here
These aren’t weak international sides but then these players aren’t as good as pochs best side
We also don’t have Kane or son who at their peak were genuinely world class
But then there really is a dearth of world class attacking players out there anyway
But if people think these guys are brick then so be it
 
Robspur12 said:
I think it is obvious, a better deep passer gets the ball to Kudus and Xavi faster. We saw that when Archie Gray played against Brentford alongside Bents. A better number 9 than Richi holds onto the ball more efficiently so we can progress attacks, rather than losing possession and have the opposition coming back at us so quickly. It's also pressing from the front we miss.

Edit: seriously watch Brentford last season they scoring goals for fun and the football was quick and progressive.
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But that's the problem, we aren't even seeing the best bits of Frank's Brentford, e.g. they were fast starters, they played with tempo and aggression, we are the opposite.

I get better players will make you better (e.g. United looks better with their new front line, but it doesn't change the fact that Amorim isn't getting the best out of them) but surely get the ball to Xavi/Kudus faster isn't a system? again, do we want to play with width or narrow, do we want runners or a hold up guy? are we pressing high or playing mid-block, my problem is if we don't know the answers to those questions, how do we know the profile of player we are looking for?

Richi is the perfect example, limited forward who does score goals, who thrives on being in box, on chaos, yet we don't play that way, we get him the ball too far from goal, try to make him a hold up guy and give him almost zero service in the box, and this is from a manager who is supposed to be pragmatic?
 
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