Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Dowell!
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The Youth Players/On-Loan Thread 2018/19
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
- Start date
StephenH
David Ginola
Tottenham's academy is succeeding thanks to locally sourced players.
In the first of a new monthly series looking at youth football, Gavin Willacy investigates Spurs’ supply line of midfielders - By Gavin Willacy for Playing in the Shadows
Tottenham fans may have been concerned by the sight of Harry Winks playing for England in Spain last week after starting just three Premier League games his return from a long-term ankle injury. But they should be excited as there is more to come from that particular talent pool: gifted local central midfielders.
Tottenham created history by being the first team in the Premier League era to not sign anyone during the summer transfer window, but there was a new face in their opening-day win at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Luke Amos was promoted to the squad and given his first five minutes of action in the top flight. The 21-year-old tore his ACL in a reserve game against Blackburn the following week and is now out for the season. That has enabled an even younger midfielder to push himself forward.
With Tottenham’s stars from the World Cup missing, Oliver Skipp – like Amos – impressed Pochettino in pre-season, especially against Milan in the International Champions Cup. Amos was thrust into the deep end at St James’s Park but he did so with half a season of men’s football behind him, albeit in League Two. Skipp was drafted on to the Spurs’ bench at Wembley against Barcelona and the subsequent trip to Cardiff even though his only official senior action came in a couple of starts in the Checkatrade Trophy. Less than a year ago Skipp was an unused sub for the Under-21s in that competition at Barnet, with the No71 sprawled across his back.
After a few tastes of reserve-team football last year – his first season as a full-time footballer after leaving school in Hertford – the industrious Skipp has worked his way into the Under-23s starting line-up this year, often operating on the right of a midfield three, from where he feeds the front men with clever slide-rule passes, usually with his right boot. Filling out rapidly, the 18-year-old can now win challenges and get box to box.
Capped by England at Under-16, 17 and now 18 levels, Skipp has seized his chance this season. With Winks back from injury, Skipp has returned to learning his trade on Friday and Monday nights with Wayne Burnett’s Under-23s. But such is the tight-knit structure of Tottenham’s youth development, special talents are nurtured by all. Pochettino and his coaches rarely miss a home Under-23s game (most of which are held at Stevenage), where they take time to chat to the young players and staff pitchside before kick-off.
Some of Spurs’ rivals recruit from far and wide, but almost all of their second string are English and the vast majority of their Under-23s are from the A10 corridor that stretches from White Hart Lane to north Hertfordshire: Spursland. They come from Hackney and Hertford, Enfield and Cheshunt, Borehamwood and Winchmore Hill. Goalkeeper Alfie Whiteman even grew up a short walk from White Hart Lane. These are local lads coming through the system at a Premier League club.
Spurs reserves experience a wide variety of styles and situations: technical academy football in Premier League 2, elite European opposition in the Uefa Youth League, and hardened League One and Two professionals in the EFL Trophy. Amos was among a clutch of Spurs Under-23s loaned out during last season – he went to Stevenage, his local league League Two club, following the path taken by Harry Kane, who had loan spells with Leyton Orient, Millwall, Norwich City and Leicester City before making his Premier League debut under Tim Sherwood (his former reserve-team manager) – but Pochettino prefers to keep the players he considers close to first-team selection in-house. Winks and Kyle Walker-Peters remained at the club’s Enfield training ground rather than getting senior games elsewhere last season. Expect Skipp to do the same. Acceleration can be rapid at Spurs. Now 22, Winks was in the Under-23s at the start of 2016 and finished the year in the first XI.
Pochettino and academy manager John McDermott know they only need one first-team candidate to emerge from the 23s each season to justify the club’s huge investment. That one may well be Amos or Skipp, this year or next. At this rate Hertfordshire could produce three Tottenham midfielders in rapid succession: Winks from Hemel Hempstead, Amos from Ware and now Skipp. Now that would be something.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tspur-academy-youth-team-bournemouth-west-ham
In the first of a new monthly series looking at youth football, Gavin Willacy investigates Spurs’ supply line of midfielders - By Gavin Willacy for Playing in the Shadows
Tottenham fans may have been concerned by the sight of Harry Winks playing for England in Spain last week after starting just three Premier League games his return from a long-term ankle injury. But they should be excited as there is more to come from that particular talent pool: gifted local central midfielders.
Tottenham created history by being the first team in the Premier League era to not sign anyone during the summer transfer window, but there was a new face in their opening-day win at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Luke Amos was promoted to the squad and given his first five minutes of action in the top flight. The 21-year-old tore his ACL in a reserve game against Blackburn the following week and is now out for the season. That has enabled an even younger midfielder to push himself forward.
With Tottenham’s stars from the World Cup missing, Oliver Skipp – like Amos – impressed Pochettino in pre-season, especially against Milan in the International Champions Cup. Amos was thrust into the deep end at St James’s Park but he did so with half a season of men’s football behind him, albeit in League Two. Skipp was drafted on to the Spurs’ bench at Wembley against Barcelona and the subsequent trip to Cardiff even though his only official senior action came in a couple of starts in the Checkatrade Trophy. Less than a year ago Skipp was an unused sub for the Under-21s in that competition at Barnet, with the No71 sprawled across his back.
After a few tastes of reserve-team football last year – his first season as a full-time footballer after leaving school in Hertford – the industrious Skipp has worked his way into the Under-23s starting line-up this year, often operating on the right of a midfield three, from where he feeds the front men with clever slide-rule passes, usually with his right boot. Filling out rapidly, the 18-year-old can now win challenges and get box to box.
Capped by England at Under-16, 17 and now 18 levels, Skipp has seized his chance this season. With Winks back from injury, Skipp has returned to learning his trade on Friday and Monday nights with Wayne Burnett’s Under-23s. But such is the tight-knit structure of Tottenham’s youth development, special talents are nurtured by all. Pochettino and his coaches rarely miss a home Under-23s game (most of which are held at Stevenage), where they take time to chat to the young players and staff pitchside before kick-off.
Some of Spurs’ rivals recruit from far and wide, but almost all of their second string are English and the vast majority of their Under-23s are from the A10 corridor that stretches from White Hart Lane to north Hertfordshire: Spursland. They come from Hackney and Hertford, Enfield and Cheshunt, Borehamwood and Winchmore Hill. Goalkeeper Alfie Whiteman even grew up a short walk from White Hart Lane. These are local lads coming through the system at a Premier League club.
Spurs reserves experience a wide variety of styles and situations: technical academy football in Premier League 2, elite European opposition in the Uefa Youth League, and hardened League One and Two professionals in the EFL Trophy. Amos was among a clutch of Spurs Under-23s loaned out during last season – he went to Stevenage, his local league League Two club, following the path taken by Harry Kane, who had loan spells with Leyton Orient, Millwall, Norwich City and Leicester City before making his Premier League debut under Tim Sherwood (his former reserve-team manager) – but Pochettino prefers to keep the players he considers close to first-team selection in-house. Winks and Kyle Walker-Peters remained at the club’s Enfield training ground rather than getting senior games elsewhere last season. Expect Skipp to do the same. Acceleration can be rapid at Spurs. Now 22, Winks was in the Under-23s at the start of 2016 and finished the year in the first XI.
Pochettino and academy manager John McDermott know they only need one first-team candidate to emerge from the 23s each season to justify the club’s huge investment. That one may well be Amos or Skipp, this year or next. At this rate Hertfordshire could produce three Tottenham midfielders in rapid succession: Winks from Hemel Hempstead, Amos from Ware and now Skipp. Now that would be something.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tspur-academy-youth-team-bournemouth-west-ham
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
In that big transcript of McDermott's presentation to an American university from a few years ago, he mentioned that all their evidence was showing bringing players into academies from far away never bared fruit.
So hence we don't bother bringing over talented prospects like Dag Olsen, Musa Yahaya, Yuri Berchiche, Mounir El Hamdaoui, Emil Hallfreosson, Iago Falque, Cristian Ceballos etc. into our academy anymore
So hence we don't bother bringing over talented prospects like Dag Olsen, Musa Yahaya, Yuri Berchiche, Mounir El Hamdaoui, Emil Hallfreosson, Iago Falque, Cristian Ceballos etc. into our academy anymore
Just our Academy or in general? Messi / Sancho / Sturridge off the top of my head.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
In general I think. Or maybe in the UK anyway - obviously the Iberian model is based on plundering South America. McDermott conclusion was that it was basically a career killer to uproot kids that early in their life.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Question: How important is it that the players come from local areas?
John thinks it is very important. Other developers get a buzz from going all over the world, such as Emirates Marketing Project- galactico academy. John thinks a lot of research shows if you leave your country 16-20 years of age, it is not helpful for development, except for a few. John drew a diagram of London area and showed where most of our academy graduates come from- Mason, Townsend, Caulker, Daniels, Kane, Onomah, Carroll, Smith, Stewart, McGee, Winks, Pritchard, and Livermore. Two exceptions, one exception is Bentaleb, a very interesting story, the team he was playing for went bust and Bentaleb ended up playing street football as a player/coach. He went to Birmingham, found nothing, came to London and asked for a trial. Tottenham signed Nabil after that trial. The other exception is Rose, who we bought. Told a story about Townsend who was dropped and refused to be released and kept turning up, eventually John and Chris (Ramsey) stopped caring because he refused to be told no. John thinks this is evidence to show local players work and that our foreign academy players usually go back home for a number of reasons e.g. socially, culturally etc.
John also thinks it is beneficial for foreign players to stay at home, play a few games in their domestic league then maybe go to the big European leagues where development and opportunities are harder to come by. John feels unbelievably privileged and lucky that Poch was given his opportunity at 17 years of age. Poch wants 5 things in a player, technically good, tactically good, physically outstanding, mentally strong and faith- they have to believe in what we are about. A player must unconditionally believe in the plan, for example: If Poch tells Kane, run around that pitch three times, do press ups and it will give you a better chance of scoring, Harry is going to do it. Poch has the young players in the palm of his hand and the synergy that comes with that John thinks is amazing.
John thinks it is very important. Other developers get a buzz from going all over the world, such as Emirates Marketing Project- galactico academy. John thinks a lot of research shows if you leave your country 16-20 years of age, it is not helpful for development, except for a few. John drew a diagram of London area and showed where most of our academy graduates come from- Mason, Townsend, Caulker, Daniels, Kane, Onomah, Carroll, Smith, Stewart, McGee, Winks, Pritchard, and Livermore. Two exceptions, one exception is Bentaleb, a very interesting story, the team he was playing for went bust and Bentaleb ended up playing street football as a player/coach. He went to Birmingham, found nothing, came to London and asked for a trial. Tottenham signed Nabil after that trial. The other exception is Rose, who we bought. Told a story about Townsend who was dropped and refused to be released and kept turning up, eventually John and Chris (Ramsey) stopped caring because he refused to be told no. John thinks this is evidence to show local players work and that our foreign academy players usually go back home for a number of reasons e.g. socially, culturally etc.
John also thinks it is beneficial for foreign players to stay at home, play a few games in their domestic league then maybe go to the big European leagues where development and opportunities are harder to come by. John feels unbelievably privileged and lucky that Poch was given his opportunity at 17 years of age. Poch wants 5 things in a player, technically good, tactically good, physically outstanding, mentally strong and faith- they have to believe in what we are about. A player must unconditionally believe in the plan, for example: If Poch tells Kane, run around that pitch three times, do press ups and it will give you a better chance of scoring, Harry is going to do it. Poch has the young players in the palm of his hand and the synergy that comes with that John thinks is amazing.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
I once went to an away match drank 20 pints and then stopped up for Ricky Hatton fight till 5 in morning and played on a Sunday morning
And i was still better than Onomah played today
#Wendys
Haha
And i was still better than Onomah played today
#Wendys
Haha
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Not playing as effectively as you can when out of position is understandable but playing poorly is not, only being able to play in one position is always going to limit the chances of a young player unless he's brilliant and Onomah isnt.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Nabbed from TFC, not sure on the source but its google translated from Dutch. This seemed the most relevant part:
Now he is at Excelsior, in the middle of the premier league. He is very introverted, they notice at the club. He is not a talker, does not make contact quickly, that's how it sounds.
It is one of the reasons why Tottenham thought it important that he be leased outside England, says managing director Ferry de Haan. "Not only in the field of football, but also in the social field, that would hopefully be a good development for Marcus." Apart from being a football player, they also want to take him further "as a person", he says.
In the lee of Excelsior, one of the smallest and quietest clubs in the Dutch league, he can get the personal attention he needs. De Haan: "We talk a lot with him, try to make him feel at ease."
The fact that young, technical players in the Dutch league have the time and space to develop themselves also participated in the Spurs' choice to store Edwards here in the Netherlands. Excelsior had been on a list for a long time and was tipped last summer by the Football Mix agency of the Humphrey Nijman agent that rent was an option. They also brokered the lease contract.
A hint of Messi is sometimes visible when you see Edwards playing. He was already in the 'Eleven of the Week', a section of Voetbal International . Sometimes he is inimitable, but often also invisible. Against Groningen (2-4 losses), he provides most of the threat and opportunity in the initial phase, but he does not score.
Insufficient yield
His return is still insufficient, with one assist in nine games. "In the last phase he usually loses the overview", says teammate Mounir El Hamdaoui. He has to become brighter, to claim more, according to El Hamdaoui. "Very often he is a bit drowsy, which is apathetic."
Edwards plays a bit like a junior, El Hamdaoui agrees. "If he has the ball he will dribble and he will see where it is stranding, there is no real idea behind it."
El Hamdaoui: "He has to become more mature. Occasionally you have to vary, which is firmer to the ball, hit once and choose the depth. It only starts with him when he has the ball. "
Friday after the match, Edwards does not want to speak to the press, although the team manager and the club spokesman in the locker room have talked to him to do it anyway. But he has "no sense", is the announcement. This would be partly due to experiences with the media in his homeland.
Always on time
It is a "challenge" to get through to him says Excelsior coach Adrie Poldervaart. They do not notice anything of discipline problems like at Norwich City. "He has to be there at half past nine, he is always on time."
According to El Hamdaoui, Edwards suffers from homesickness. "As a young boy in a different culture, in another country, it is difficult to adapt quickly. We try to involve him in the group in everything. "The homesickness also explains why he is so quiet, El Hamdaoui thinks. His father regularly comes to Rotterdam to support him.
Poldervaart: "He is only nineteen years old, you should not forget that."
Now he is at Excelsior, in the middle of the premier league. He is very introverted, they notice at the club. He is not a talker, does not make contact quickly, that's how it sounds.
It is one of the reasons why Tottenham thought it important that he be leased outside England, says managing director Ferry de Haan. "Not only in the field of football, but also in the social field, that would hopefully be a good development for Marcus." Apart from being a football player, they also want to take him further "as a person", he says.
In the lee of Excelsior, one of the smallest and quietest clubs in the Dutch league, he can get the personal attention he needs. De Haan: "We talk a lot with him, try to make him feel at ease."
The fact that young, technical players in the Dutch league have the time and space to develop themselves also participated in the Spurs' choice to store Edwards here in the Netherlands. Excelsior had been on a list for a long time and was tipped last summer by the Football Mix agency of the Humphrey Nijman agent that rent was an option. They also brokered the lease contract.
A hint of Messi is sometimes visible when you see Edwards playing. He was already in the 'Eleven of the Week', a section of Voetbal International . Sometimes he is inimitable, but often also invisible. Against Groningen (2-4 losses), he provides most of the threat and opportunity in the initial phase, but he does not score.
Insufficient yield
His return is still insufficient, with one assist in nine games. "In the last phase he usually loses the overview", says teammate Mounir El Hamdaoui. He has to become brighter, to claim more, according to El Hamdaoui. "Very often he is a bit drowsy, which is apathetic."
Edwards plays a bit like a junior, El Hamdaoui agrees. "If he has the ball he will dribble and he will see where it is stranding, there is no real idea behind it."
El Hamdaoui: "He has to become more mature. Occasionally you have to vary, which is firmer to the ball, hit once and choose the depth. It only starts with him when he has the ball. "
Friday after the match, Edwards does not want to speak to the press, although the team manager and the club spokesman in the locker room have talked to him to do it anyway. But he has "no sense", is the announcement. This would be partly due to experiences with the media in his homeland.
Always on time
It is a "challenge" to get through to him says Excelsior coach Adrie Poldervaart. They do not notice anything of discipline problems like at Norwich City. "He has to be there at half past nine, he is always on time."
According to El Hamdaoui, Edwards suffers from homesickness. "As a young boy in a different culture, in another country, it is difficult to adapt quickly. We try to involve him in the group in everything. "The homesickness also explains why he is so quiet, El Hamdaoui thinks. His father regularly comes to Rotterdam to support him.
Poldervaart: "He is only nineteen years old, you should not forget that."
Daisuk
Dimitar Berbatov
Wednesday fans not exactly overjoyed with Onomah.
https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/276271-onomah/?page=8
If you can't cut it in the Championship, you can't cut it in the PL. I reckon he's gone come summer.
https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/276271-onomah/?page=8
If you can't cut it in the Championship, you can't cut it in the PL. I reckon he's gone come summer.
I only looked at pages 6-8 but most of those comments are pretty scathing. His only hope is that he gets sent back to Spurs and because of our problems in CM he somehow gets a start. That said, given the sort of things Poch values he's hardly likely to give Onomah a start if the feedback about him is similar to those comments.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Well Amos did not pull up any trees out on loan so lets just hope it is the experience that he is getting.
I did expect more from Onomah this time, I wonder if he will be like an Adam Smith who had to have a few seasons out on loan till he looked like a prem level footballer. Even Tripper had to drop down and learn his trade before coming back up.
I did expect more from Onomah this time, I wonder if he will be like an Adam Smith who had to have a few seasons out on loan till he looked like a prem level footballer. Even Tripper had to drop down and learn his trade before coming back up.
Cochise
Steve Carr
I think the problem is that we've been expecting more from Josh for quite some time. To my eyes at least, he looked very good in the Europa league games he got when first promoted up into the seniors. He's never really looked like kicking on from there, whilst at the same time Winks has come on leaps and bounds.
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Hard to judge him if he is not played in his position. I can imagine how Winks would be if we let him go on loan to certain clubs in the Championship
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I agree, when you see comments like:
Disgrace. Walking over the pitch, not even trying. Shame as he is a talented player.
It doesnt bode well, does it?
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
My loyalty knows no bounds...I have left the luxury of my beach house and ventured into the undisputable pit that is Portsmouth and the brickhole that is fratton park.
Check a trade glory awaits...think a point will see us through. They're top of league 1, so a tough examination for our young'uns.
Check a trade glory awaits...think a point will see us through. They're top of league 1, so a tough examination for our young'uns.