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The Youth Players/On-Loan Thread 2018/19

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
He always has.

Raises the question though, why, if its his strength, do successive managers move him to AM? Do they not trust him there? Does he not impress enough in training to earn it?
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This is it in a nutshell for me also, Poch, Bruce and now the Wednesday manager have all mainly played him AM. The only managers who’ve trusted him in CM for any period of time are the England youth coaches. There is clearly a reason they (adult coaches) are doing it, but without watching each game he’s played it’s tough to form an opinion why. But it’s an issue for Onomah if he can’t convince them.
 
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Gazza Dazzla said:
This is it in a nutshell for me, Poch, Bruce and now the Wednesday manager have all mainly played him AM. The only managers who’ve trusted him in CM for any period of time are the England youth coaches. There is clearly a reason they (adult coaches) are doing it, but without watching each game he’s played it’s tough to form an opinion why. But it’s an issue for Onomah if he can’t convince them.
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Of course, we have to work from inference and little more.

For me, from what Ive seen and read, I just dont think he has the belief.

I remember O'Haras debut vivdly (and yes, I know he is a bellend who never amounted to anything!). He came on the pitch, into CM, and within minutes was barking at senior players to position themselves properly and cover runs etc. I absolutely fudging loved it! This kid came in with the belief he belonged and took ownership.

Not in the same way, but in Onomahs time Bentaleb, Mason, Winks - all came in, owned it, and showed they belonged. And in their brief appearances Skipp and Amos look to have that belief in themselves as well.

Onomah has just never looked to me like he had the same will/belief/mentality/ability to step in.

As @milo and @Danishfurniturelover said, chances are he will have to move down the leagues to learn that. Im sure he has the ability, so it wouldnt be a surprise to see him in the premiership later on. But, IMHO, his time with us is done.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
This is it in a nutshell for me also, Poch, Bruce and now the Wednesday manager have all mainly played him AM. The only managers who’ve trusted him in CM for any period of time are the England youth coaches. There is clearly a reason they (adult coaches) are doing it, but without watching each game he’s played it’s tough to form an opinion why. But it’s an issue for Onomah if he can’t convince them.
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Milner and Dembele had similar issues all through their early 20s.
 
Sometimes with youth players they seem a good prospect when they are younger as they have a physical advantage above their contemporaries. It’s a reason why I think Kane is so good, as the youngest in his year group and no real outstanding pace he’s had to learn to use his body to make up for being smaller / slower and find other ways such as getting a shot off earlier to improve his performance. Then when he matured he kicked on as at the pro level. Onomah got his opportunities at a young age under a manager who placed a high value on performances in training and work rate, so although he wasn’t showing much as an AM when I’d seen him I had assumed it was all part of a grander plan for him to earn a centre mid berth when he’d filled out a bit whilst getting some first team experience. Perhaps he excelled in training in a comfortable environment here, lost a bit of confidence due to his lack of impact in his first team chances and is now struggling at a level that places less emphasis on technique, as he doesn’t seem to be a particularly physical player and maybe held back this part of his game as he’s never had to overly use it.
 
MKSpur said:
Sometimes with youth players they seem a good prospect when they are younger as they have a physical advantage above their contemporaries. It’s a reason why I think Kane is so good, as the youngest in his year group and no real outstanding pace he’s had to learn to use his body to make up for being smaller / slower and find other ways such as getting a shot off earlier to improve his performance. Then when he matured he kicked on as at the pro level. Onomah got his opportunities at a young age under a manager who placed a high value on performances in training and work rate, so although he wasn’t showing much as an AM when I’d seen him I had assumed it was all part of a grander plan for him to earn a centre mid berth when he’d filled out a bit whilst getting some first team experience. Perhaps he excelled in training in a comfortable environment here, lost a bit of confidence due to his lack of impact in his first team chances and is now struggling at a level that places less emphasis on technique, as he doesn’t seem to be a particularly physical player and maybe held back this part of his game as he’s never had to overly use it.
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You say he doesn't seem particularly physical yet his tackling and tenacity on the ball - at least when applying himself - has at times been compared with that of Mousa Dembele. It's not as though at over 6' he's lacking in stature either.

But that of course still begs the question, what the hell IS going on with him?
 
Spur of the moment said:
You say he doesn't seem particularly physical yet his tackling and tenacity on the ball - at least when applying himself - has at times been compared with that of Mousa Dembele. It's not as though at over 6' he's lacking in stature either.

But that of course still begs the question, what the hell IS going on with him?
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Maybe I should have used aggression rather than physical - I don’t think dembele is overly physically either, as in his the strongest player I’ve ever seen but he uses it more to protect the ball than win it / put a bit of fear into an opponent. Always thought Huddlestone was similar in that way too, which considering he played centre back for Derby at 16 might tie in with the gentle giant tag - then you get someone like Danny rose who seems to have wwf type battle every game - which he probably needs to as he’s often 6 inches shorter and probably a few stone lighter than his opponents, which also gets labelled small man syndrome!
 
Gutter Boy said:
Out of position on the wing though
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He was a winger, and an effective one at that.

Then he grew into CM, and an effective one at that.

And last season (or the one before?) he played LB, and guess what - did so rather effectively.

I dont know why people hate on Milner, he has been a bloody good player all through his career. Maybe not the best, maybe not a star, but none the less - always consistent and reliable, and of a decent standard.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
He always has.

Raises the question though, why, if its his strength, do successive managers move him to AM? Do they not trust him there? Does he not impress enough in training to earn it?
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I would genuinely love a coach to offer up their opinion on why Onomah has been used the way he has across a couple of loans now, and the reasons for Spurs letting it happen. Just because it is so interesting - a clearly talented player with some obvious physical gifts too - there has to be a reason as to why it keeps happening. And I think the answers would tell us a lot about youth development and what it takes to become an elite player in general. As has been said, O'Hara, Bentaleb, Mason, Carroll and Winks were all able to get central midfield minutes but for some reason JO isn't even trusted central midfield in the Championship.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I would genuinely love a coach to offer up their opinion on why Onomah has been used the way he has across a couple of loans now, and the reasons for Spurs letting it happen. Just because it is so interesting - a clearly talented player with some obvious physical gifts too - there has to be a reason as to why it keeps happening. And I think the answers would tell us a lot about youth development and what it takes to become an elite player in general. As has been said, O'Hara, Bentaleb, Mason, Carroll and Winks were all able to get central midfield minutes but for some reason JO isn't even trusted central midfield in the Championship.
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He was played as an AM for our U23s, earlier this season, before going out on loan.
 
milo said:
He was played as an AM for our U23s, earlier this season, before going out on loan.
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I know - and he always seems to be used back in AM with his loan clubs too, right?

I would just find it really interesting - is it that he is suffering from his versatility, does he lack some mentality, or concentration? Even the fact that we're not saying 'He's a CM, play him there or don't bother taking him' which I'm sure we could do, like he doesn't seem to benefit from a clearly defined playing path.

One of our formerly brightest prospects, who Poch took an instant liking to and tried to get him in and around as many first team squads as possible and is now struggling to make that last step. Fascinated as to why.
 
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