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The Official EURO 2012 thread

Who will win Euro 2012?

  • Spain

    Votes: 17 17.3%
  • Germany

    Votes: 54 55.1%
  • Holland

    Votes: 17 17.3%
  • France

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • Italy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • England

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Croatia

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Poland

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ukraine

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • Total voters
    98
I suppose the idea is that Jones goes from being back-up RB to being back-up CB and Kelly takes his place as the back-up RB. The other options being to just replace Cahill with Rio, or pick Richards ahead of Kelly.

Meh. Roy's decision might actually be as good a plan as any, except that it really does look like any enormous slight on Rio. It really stinks up the place, even if RH had sound reasons for doing it. Kelly > Richards seems perverse though.

Here's a comparison of who isn't going versus who is for each approximate position. The loser is first in each:

Rio - Terry
Cahill - Jagielka
Richards - Johnson/Kelly
Lampard - Henderson
Carrick - Gerrard
Scholes - Milner
Lennon - Ox
A. Johnson - Downing
Barry - ?? Who took his spot in the squad???
Carroll - Heskey

A bit weird how it's all gone.
 
Would say that it was Crouch that lost his place to Carroll, not Heskey, and you selected those two in the wrong order. And defensively, I don't know you can say that Terry is going instead of Ferdinand? Surely, one of the back up central defenders, such as Lescott, is going instead of Ferdinand as it was always likely that Terry would be selected.
 
Playing devils advocate are their games as physically demanding though? Also are their games better spread out than the fixtures in the PL? I have no idea.....
 
They are paid thousands of ?ú to keep themselves in shape, to keep themselves ready to play as many games as is required. Fitness coaches, physiotherapists and even nutritional consultants deal with the players regularly to keep them in the best shape possible. The players barely train a full working day and then go home and rest.

Too many games? Laughable!
 
Would say that it was Crouch that lost his place to Carroll, not Heskey, and you selected those two in the wrong order. And defensively, I don't know you can say that Terry is going instead of Ferdinand? Surely, one of the back up central defenders, such as Lescott, is going instead of Ferdinand as it was always likely that Terry would be selected.


Was just kidding with Heskey.
 
Look, we're not remotely blessed with a lot of top class players at the moment. We have one genuinely top class player in Rooney but very few who would get in say the Netherlands, Spain or Holland team. Additionally, while there were 3 or 4 players like Lennon and Sturridge who could have been included in the sqaud and were probably unlucky not to have been, its not as if there are a lot of players sitting at home who would have genuinely made a messive difference to the starting 11. Equally, there are very few young players say in the U-21s who I can think of who could have been brought in to stregnthen the team

WE're also probably much stronger defensively with Hart, Terry, Cole and Parker than we are from an attacking perspective. We dont have the attacking players to play teams off the park and score 3 or more against a decent international team, we would do well to put 2 past a decent team. With these players most of our games will be probably 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, a few games might be 2-0 or 2-1....we wont be beating teams 3-2, 4-2, 4-3 etc or drawing 3-3


A team doesn't have to have great players to play attacking football... Blackpool had terrible players with a few average players mixed in and managed to be extremely entertaining in the PL against far better sides. Norwich this season played offensive football with Holt, Pilkington, Naughton and various other English players.

Roy has set his team out to contain and to yield possession. Norway doesn't have spectacular players and spent the majority of the second half camped outside our box, they didn't have to have world class players to do that. Belgium also played more entertaining football than us and if they hadn't been missing Kompany, they probably wouldn't have conceded the goal they did. (Kompany's replacement and Belgium's rb found themselves taken out of the game, leaving Vermaelen to try to get from LCB over to the RCB/RB area.)

But that Belgium team still dominated possession without being Germany, Spain or the Netherlands.


I think Roy picked far too many clowns: Kelly, Henderson, Downing, Walcott, etc. So I really don't agree with his squad, but my point is that the team he did pick is still capable of playing another way. It's not as if all 11 players in both matches were clowns. Looking at the starting lineup against Belgium: Welbeck, Young, Gerrard, Parker, AOC, Milner, Hart, Johnson, Cahill, Terry, Cole... That team is more than capable of playing attacking football, most of them do it with their clubs.


The decision to simultaneously flee to the edge of their box and to wait until teams get to our defensive third is the manager's decision, the players wouldn't retreat as a unit without the instruction to do so. But the only first half chances we did create were from doing the opposite, Welbeck spent a lot of the time chasing after 4 players without any support, but when Gerrard and Young hadn't completely retreated, Welbeck and Gerrard were able to dispossess a player in Belgium's half and got a goal for their troubles, the second time was someone closing down the Belgium GK, which is the last thing this England team is set out to do.



Capello's England was more entertaining than this.


Stuart Pearce's single England game against the Netherlands was at least more entertaining, despite Stuart Pearce not being anywhere near a World Class manager. (This is the guy that thought David James would make a good striker.)

Pearce used: Hart; Richards, Smalling, Cahill, Baines; Parker, Barry; A Johnson, Gerrard, Young; Welbeck.


So it's not as if England has to be this boring or as defensive purely because our players don't know any other way.
 
They are paid thousands of £ to keep themselves in shape, to keep themselves ready to play as many games as is required. Fitness coaches, physiotherapists and even nutritional consultants deal with the players regularly to keep them in the best shape possible. The players barely train a full working day and then go home and rest.

Too many games? Laughable!

But we don't have a winter break and have the longest schedule. I agree with your pov but it seems to be a factor IMO.
 
You say that, on average the Spanish players have played 8 more games than our players so I dont buy that excuse

Why are we more injury prone? The intensity of the EPL is far higher IMO. Must be a reason why we always go into major tournaments dropping like flies.
 
This is becoming more like Roy's Liverpool team by the day, have anyone heard of Agger and Skrtel being naturalised yet?
 
Spain are missing a couple of players that play in the Spanish league, they have a winter break.

RVP is doing fine for the Netherlands despite being one of the most injury prone players I've ever seen.

Ruddy and Cahill's injuries had nothing to do with how much football they had played, a broken finger and getting shoved into a GK aren't the types of injuries that could be avoided with rest.

Barry and Lampard might have been helped with a winter break, but Lampard got dropped for a bunch of games over Christmas, so he effectively had a winter break under ABV, he played a ton of games at the end of the season under RDM.

Barry might have been saved with a winter break, but if having a couple of weeks off 6 months ago would seriously have made a difference, I'd be surprised.


We should actually have a spring break. :p


To be honest though, Spanish teams play 2 games a week for the majority of the season, they get their winter break but between CL games and the extra midweek league games, I'm not sure their winter break is as helpful as it should be.



How long would a winter break be for? The players have been training for a couple of weeks and have had 2 friendlies (aside from the Chelsea players), so if we have a manager in place long before this point the next time there is a major competition, if he gives them more time off, he'd effectively be giving them a break.


All the PL players have to deal with this though, not just the English ones. So we'll see how everyone else does. Does Kompany's calf problem count? But would his 4 game ban after he got Foyed have given him a winter break's worth of rest?


Messi and Ronaldo have played more games than most this season, so we'll see how they do. (Yes, Messi got a winter break, but he played in the World Club Championship and much of the CL... Ronaldo also got a winter break, but he played in much of the CL too.) Messi looked fine for Argentina in the game against Equador, so they both seem to be still standing.


Fitness coaches, physiotherapists and even nutritional consultants deal with the players regularly to keep them in the best shape possible.

They're mostly brick though. There are three or four main theories on how best to keep players fit, that to me is a problem... If all the experts have four radically different theories and don't know which works best, they're just guessing.
 
But we don't have a winter break and have the longest schedule. I agree with your pov but it seems to be a factor IMO.

If a winter break was introduced in England all of the big sides would f*ck off to the far east to play exhibition games.
 
Richards, Rio, Lennon, Carrick, Scholes, Bent/Sturridge.

:-k

Richards and Carrick didn't want to be on the standby list, there's never been a suggestion that Scholes would be willing to play. Bent has been injured for 3 months.

Lennon and Sturridge could have been useful options though.
 
Does Roy have some sort of clause from his Liverpool contract whereby he gets paid for getting Liverpool into Europe?
 
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