The Official 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Jordinho]

All the jibes about them having the best stadium in the Championship looking rather daft now, as its us that look more likely to go down out of the pair of us

Neither side look remotely like going down. Unfortunately so in their case, but this is as good as it gets for them.

 

[braineclipse]

West Ham have a better team than we do, and will end up above us. Hate to say it but they've overtaken us now, got a nice new stadium on the way, a decent manager and some quality players.

Some statement at this point in the season.

They're 6 points ahead of us with over 20 games left...

On December 7th in some recent seasons:

13/14 season - Saudi Sportswashing Machine were 7th with 26 points, a point behind ourselves and Everton, 3 points behind Emirates Marketing Project in 4th. They finished the season in 10th with 49 points, 20 points behind us in 6th, 30 points behind Arsenal in 4th.

12/13 season - WBA were 5th, equal on points with us in 4th and Chelsea in 3rd all with 26 points. They were 5 points ahead of Arsenal. They finished 8th with 49 points, 23 points behind us (we had 72) and 24 points behind Arsenal.

11/12 season - the anomaly I think. Saudi Sportswashing Machine were 6th with 26 points, they finished the season in 5th with 65. As to prove what an anomaly that was they almost got themselves relegated next season.

10/11 season - Bolton were 6th with 23 points, just 3 behind us in 5th and 6 behind Emirates Marketing Project in 4th. They finished 14th with 46 points and were obviously relegated the next season.

09/10 season - nothing super strange. Villa on a rare visit up at the top in 6th at this time, finishing 6th, but they actually had a good team then.

08/09 season - Hull were 6th with 26 points, 3 points behind Arsenal in 4th, 9 points ahead of us in 14. They finished the season in 17th with 35 points, a point above the drop, 16 points behind us in 8th, so many points behind 4th I can't count that far.

Source: statto.com, but counted up by me so any mistakes are mine.

Just to be clear, I just opened up the table up until December 7th and the final table and compared them. I didn't go looking for specific dates where some team was at their absolute top in November/December before plummeting through. I just compared the same day...

So whilst West Ham and Southampton have both been very impressive this season I'll hold back on making conclusions until slightly later in the season. Just to be very clear I'm not saying that West Ham and Southampton will definitely fall behind this season, there are obviously exceptions. Just that jumping to conclusions based on a good 14-15 games doesn't seem like the best idea ever.

 

[Jordinho]

Teams like West Ham and Southampton are flying high, yet they're only a few points ahead of us.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Some statement at this point in the season.

They're 6 points ahead of us with over 20 games left...

On December 7th in some recent seasons:

13/14 season - Saudi Sportswashing Machine were 7th with 26 points, a point behind ourselves and Everton, 3 points behind Emirates Marketing Project in 4th. They finished the season in 10th with 49 points, 20 points behind us in 6th, 30 points behind Arsenal in 4th.

12/13 season - WBA were 5th, equal on points with us in 4th and Chelsea in 3rd all with 26 points. They were 5 points ahead of Arsenal. They finished 8th with 49 points, 23 points behind us (we had 72) and 24 points behind Arsenal.

11/12 season - the anomaly I think. Saudi Sportswashing Machine were 6th with 26 points, they finished the season in 5th with 65. As to prove what an anomaly that was they almost got themselves relegated next season.

10/11 season - Bolton were 6th with 23 points, just 3 behind us in 5th and 6 behind Emirates Marketing Project in 4th. They finished 14th with 46 points and were obviously relegated the next season.

09/10 season - nothing super strange. Villa on a rare visit up at the top in 6th at this time, finishing 6th, but they actually had a good team then.

08/09 season - Hull were 6th with 26 points, 3 points behind Arsenal in 4th, 9 points ahead of us in 14. They finished the season in 17th with 35 points, a point above the drop, 16 points behind us in 8th, so many points behind 4th I can't count that far.

Source: statto.com, but counted up by me so any mistakes are mine.

Just to be clear, I just opened up the table up until December 7th and the final table and compared them. I didn't go looking for specific dates where some team was at their absolute top in November/December before plummeting through. I just compared the same day...

So whilst West Ham and Southampton have both been very impressive this season I'll hold back on making conclusions until slightly later in the season. Just to be very clear I'm not saying that West Ham and Southampton will definitely fall behind this season, there are obviously exceptions. Just that jumping to conclusions based on a good 14-15 games doesn't seem like the best idea ever.

Fair enough. The league is decided in May not December, point taken. However, I would not be that surprised if at least one of Southampton or West Ham didn't finish above us, if not both. It just seems a bit churlish when people suggest they have been lucky or don't deserve to be where they are. We've gone backwards in my opinion and I don't believe we can or should just expect us to finish above those teams or Everton or Swansea for example anymore.

 

[paxtonwolf]

How the Villa fans have got the cheek to sing that annoying 'sh!t support' song is beyond me with all those empty blue seats in the ground.

Well done Leicester 1-0 have that Villa

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Are you sure it wasn't the Leicester fans singing it to the home fans?

Re above, fair enough but I don't see West Ham winning games because they are lucky, or fluking it. I see them playing good football and a variety of football. Some over the top long ball stuff and also some nice passing and crossing which is resulting in goals. They have brought in Song, Kayoute, Sakho and Valencia who are all very good players. That's 4 players there that would walk into our team at this moment. If you asked West Ham who they'd take from us it would probably be Loris and maybe Eriksen. Can't see anyone else getting in their team.

Add Jenkinson who is a decent right back and Also Cresswell that is playing well, oh and Carroll who is better than our strikers put together. I know which team id bet on to finish higher.

 

[braineclipse]

Fair enough. The league is decided in May not December, point taken. However, I would not be that surprised if at least one of Southampton or West Ham didn't finish above us, if not both. It just seems a bit churlish when people suggest they have been lucky or don't deserve to be where they are. We've gone backwards in my opinion and I don't believe we can or should just expect us to finish above those teams or Everton or Swansea for example anymore.

The point is not just that the league isn't decided in December.

A more important point is that 15 games is really a rather small sample size. Particularly when the difference between success and failure for most teams is probably no more than, and often much less than, 6-9 points within that period. So in essence a run of a handful of games within those 15 games is enough to swing opinion.

So jumping to conclusions based on that kind of sample is a bit silly. It's true if it's a striker scoring like Jelavic, Cisse or Negredo. It's true if it's judging a manager doing well like Steve Clarke, AVB or DiMatteo. It's true if it's judging a manager that's doing poorly like Pardew, Rodgers or Martinez.

Time will tell if Pelle can keep scoring, if West Ham can keep winning and if Koeman is the next Laudrup or the next Rodgers (one going on to get sacked, the other to a much bigger job, not really making claims about either or looking for a discussion on it). All I know about as surely as I think I can know things is that 15 games is a small sample size.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The point is not just that the league isn't decided in December.

A more important point is that 15 games is really a rather small sample size. Particularly when the difference between success and failure for most teams is probably no more than, and often much less than, 6-9 points within that period. So in essence a run of a handful of games within those 15 games is enough to swing opinion.

So jumping to conclusions based on that kind of sample is a bit silly. It's true if it's a striker scoring like Jelavic, Cisse or Negredo. It's true if it's judging a manager doing well like Steve Clarke, AVB or DiMatteo. It's true if it's judging a manager that's doing poorly like Pardew, Rodgers or Martinez.

Time will tell if Pelle can keep scoring, if West Ham can keep winning and if Koeman is the next Laudrup or the next Rodgers (one going on to get sacked, the other to a much bigger job, not really making claims about either or looking for a discussion on it). All I know about as surely as I think I can know things is that 15 games is a small sample size.

Fair enough. I'm just looking at the way all the teams have played so far and I don't see us improving enough to overtake them without investing in a striker at the very least. A new striker could potentially fire us up the table and cover up some deficiences with have going forward and creating chances like Bale did two seasons ago.

 

[braineclipse]

Fair enough. I'm just looking at the way all the teams have played so far and I don't see us improving enough to overtake them without investing in a striker at the very least. A new striker could potentially fire us up the table and cover up some deficiences with have going forward and creating chances like Bale did two seasons ago.

I do agree that we need a new striker, or somehow motivate Adebayor to be what he has only rarely been in his career.

I also think we need another midfield option.

But I can definitely see us improving. Or continue to improve. And the difference between us and West Ham in the league really isn't big if we do improve.

 

[Jordinho]

I do agree that we need a new striker, or somehow motivate Adebayor to be what he has only rarely been in his career.

I also think we need another midfield option.

But I can definitely see us improving. Or continue to improve. And the difference between us and West Ham in the league really isn't big if we do improve.

And that still doesn't take into consideration that they are highly likely to suffer a drop in form at some point.

 

[braineclipse]

And that still doesn't take into consideration that they are highly likely to suffer a drop in form at some point.

Oh of course. I was more talking about a hypothetical situation where they Saudi Sportswashing Machine style keep up a super impressive start to the season.

 

[Jordinho]

Oh of course. I was more talking about a hypothetical situation where they Saudi Sportswashing Machine style keep up a super impressive start to the season.

All this talk about us ending up in the bottom half not only requires us to get worse, but quite a few other sides need to either continue a rich vein of form or find one.

 

[the dza]

The point is not just that the league isn't decided in December.

A more important point is that 15 games is really a rather small sample size. Particularly when the difference between success and failure for most teams is probably no more than, and often much less than, 6-9 points within that period. So in essence a run of a handful of games within those 15 games is enough to swing opinion.

So jumping to conclusions based on that kind of sample is a bit silly. It's true if it's a striker scoring like Jelavic, Cisse or Negredo. It's true if it's judging a manager doing well like Steve Clarke, AVB or DiMatteo. It's true if it's judging a manager that's doing poorly like Pardew, Rodgers or Martinez.

Time will tell if Pelle can keep scoring, if West Ham can keep winning and if Koeman is the next Laudrup or the next Rodgers (one going on to get sacked, the other to a much bigger job, not really making claims about either or looking for a discussion on it). All I know about as surely as I think I can know things is that 15 games is a small sample size.

15 games ain't that small a sample size imo, the season is only 38 games long. The top 2 right now will be the top 2 in May, we just don't know what order. The teams down in the bottom 5 are likely to stay there all season. I don't think West Ham or Southampton will finish top 4 though, I think Utd and Arsenal will. The top 4 money teams will occupy the top 4 positions.

 

[Jurgen the German]

letter of the law it is. there can be zero debate about it. based on precedent, it maybe itsnt. if that foul occured in the middle of the pitch in a champions league game, its almost certainly a freekick.

just like james milner said, if its a foul anywhere else on the pitch, why isnt it a penalty?

in short, its 100% a penalty. the ref made numerous errors in this game. awarding the foul here wasnt one of them

One of the softest penalties you'll see all season, along with the one Liverpool got at our place. Not enough contact for a pen or a foul.

 

[Neymar]

One of the softest penalties you'll see all season, along with the one Liverpool got at our place. Not enough contact for a pen or a foul.

probably is one of the softest penalties you will see all season. however, i think you would get a foul for that anywhere else on the pitch more often than not given the way milner went down (75%+). and in europe, i think that figure approaches almost 100%.

the simple fact is, it is a foul, and therefore a penalty. the only reason that people do not think it is a penalty is because we are so used to the unwritten rule that the foul must be more severe than normal for it to be awarded inside the box.

if you read the rules, its quite clearly 100% a penalty.

 

[braineclipse]

15 games ain't that small a sample size imo, the season is only 38 games long. The top 2 right now will be the top 2 in May, we just don't know what order. The teams down in the bottom 5 are likely to stay there all season. I don't think West Ham or Southampton will finish top 4 though, I think Utd and Arsenal will. The top 4 money teams will occupy the top 4 positions.

I think the examples I listed above illustrates the point about 15 games being a small sample size rather well. But feel free to cherry pick based on the current table to argue that it isn't.

Obviously despite it being a small samples size it's not meaningless. The point I was putting forward was one about there being a lot of variation to come, particularly for teams that are deemed to have over performed compared to expectations at this point of the season.

 

[braineclipse]

probably is one of the softest penalties you will see all season. however, i think you would get a foul for that anywhere else on the pitch more often than not given the way milner went down (75%+). and in europe, i think that figure approaches almost 100%.

the simple fact is, it is a foul, and therefore a penalty. the only reason that people do not think it is a penalty is because we are so used to the unwritten rule that the foul must be more severe than normal for it to be awarded inside the box.

if you read the rules, its quite clearly 100% a penalty.

Current interpretation of the rules by match officials and footballing associations is more relevant than a strict by the book interpretation though.

 

[Neymar]

Current interpretation of the rules by match officials and footballing associations is more relevant than a strict by the book interpretation though.

yeah i agree. which is why referees are struggling so much these days. with all the cameras at the games and social media etc, every aspect of the game is under the spotlight. and people are now realising just how much inconsistency there is in refereering performances. these inconsistencies exist because referees are having to "make up" their own rules rather than simply following the rule book. this is also why video technology is not being introduced into football imo. as it would completely change the way the game is played, as football would have to confront the fact that the actual rules of football are largely irrelevant at the moment.

 

[the dza]

I think the examples I listed above illustrates the point about 15 games being a small sample size rather well. But feel free to cherry pick based on the current table to argue that it isn't.

Obviously despite it being a small samples size it's not meaningless. The point I was putting forward was one about there being a lot of variation to come, particularly for teams that are deemed to have over performed compared to expectations at this point of the season.

I didn't see the post with the examples until I saw this reply. So it seems the sh1t sinks to the bottom fairly fast, the best get to the top pretty quick, and the middle of the table takes awhile to shake out into a true order.

I'd expect Utd and Arsenal to be firmly in the top 4 places with another 10 games gone.

 

[Robbo]

Well...If West Ham are still above us at the end of the season, then they've very probably deserved it. We'll see in May.

Wouldn't draw any conclusions now, except that they've been better than us so far.