The Next 10 Years - Poll

[DubaiSpur]

Don't worry about keeping the club in business, just pay whatever it takes. It's not about saving a buck here and there, we're talking millions and it all adds up in the end.

I'm sure it adds up. Maybe to even more than the amount we've made in profits over the past few seasons (although it has to be a considerable amount if so: the Swiss Ramble, in that link above, reports that '... In fact, Tottenham have reported profits in eight of the 10 years since 2005, normally just above break-even, but sizeable returns of £28 million in 2007 and £33 million in 2009.').

How worried Levy must be, trying to keep the club in business by charging the second-highest season ticket prices in the league and delivering one League Cup in fifteen sodding years in return. Forget our billionaire f*cking owner and his mountain of cash (plus the larger mountain he'll make off the profits of a club run almost entirely without his money, which he bought for just 21 million quid and is now hoping to sell for 1.2 billion), however: when the chance came to take a risk with the money we did make, like in 2012 with Harry asking for Tevez, Cahill or Samba while the team was riding high in the league with a shot at the title and CL football seemingly assured, or in the summer of 2012 when a young, prodigal manager asked for the backing to achieve his vision.....our gloriously able and adept chairman shirked at the last. With our own money, too: no cribbing about 'waaaah, living beyond our means! Leeds! Pompey!'. With our own damn money.

This is a sodding bang average chairman riding on sky-high ticket prices and TV deals to grow the value of a club he has no desire to invest in, and little desire to see challenge for anything at all if it means the club either taking a risk of any sort or having the unmitigated temerity to ask for the owners' help in fulfilling its own damn ethos of reaching for glory. If Bill Nicholson asked for 99,999-pound Jimmy Greaves and received bottom of the table Preston's David Sneddon instead because the chairman didn't want to take an unnecessary risk, I doubt he or his chairman would have been particularly remembered by this club. And yet, we're expected to believe that Levy and his 'model' are above reproach, a shining example of how to conduct our affairs in a world where UEFA are actually loosening Fair Play rules in an attempt to get clubs spending and showing ambition again (although our Danny boy uses FFP as an excuse to avoid spending, of course).

A visionary, he isn't. A revolutionary chairman, he isn't. And yet, you have the gall to suggest that anything other than his 'model' is 'lunacy', and that we shouldn't take jibes at ickle Levy's tendency to shirk from any and all risk or financial input into the storied old football club he and his partner happen to own because 'b-b-but look at Pompey or Leeds!', while also all the while pretending that nothing's wrong with the way we recruit players, or the relations between Levy and his many managers, or the 'backing' we supposedly offer to the coaches who are still dim or deluded enough to fall for our claptrap about 'ambitions commensurate with our size'.

Sigh. But what's the use. Go on believing that Stambo and Fazio were players Poch begged for (on his knees) at the meeting of the mighty transfer committee, or that any risk or financial input into our club in pursuit of our dreams is doomsday incarnate, or that AVB, Harry and Juande were all perfectly happy with what they got and it's only me stirring up trouble by making up things about the players they wanted (and believed were possible to acquire) but didn't get, and about the players they wanted to keep but were sold. I'm not expecting miracles, Jord.

 

[DubaiSpur]

If you really want these minor trophies consistently will you lot be happy with us resting players in the league so we can concentrate on them?

Yes. If it meant a strong team for a domestic cup game (and we were assured of this prospect), I'd be more than happy to weaken the team for the weekend game, unless it's a derby.

 

[parklane1]

Oh believe me, if Spurs ever get themselves into the position of actually winning the FA cup, Levy will milk it for all its worth with DVDs, mugs, t shirts, knickers, open top bus rides through north , south, east, west london

And you think that is the wrong thing to do?, its simple really no one forces any fan to buy the products only a idiot would buy them and then moan about it.

 

[parklane1]

Let's face it minor trophies are by and large an irrelevance. You can win one of them and then disappear off the map, cf Wigan and Pompey. Think of that. The only trophies that matter are the PL and CL. We all know it, no point in pretending otherwise.

Regular CL qualification would mean our results week-in week-out would by definition be that much better, we'd regularly play host to a much better class of European clubs including potentially the elite such as Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid. We'd enjoy much more media attention and it would put an end to Thursday night/Sunday afternoon misery. It would also bring with it a progressive upgrade in the quality of our squad year-on-year so that going forward we'd be in with a more realistic chance of actually winning something worthwhile.

So it's a no-brainer, ECL qualification for me.

Wrong we do not ALL know that, and ( at the moment) 62% of members on here show that. Its satisfying to see that some fans still remember that winning trophys is what we all play the game for. It should be more but that is what modern football has turned into ( mores the pity).

 

[Jordinho]

I'm sure it adds up. Maybe to even more than the amount we've made in profits over the past few seasons (although it has to be a considerable amount if so: the Swiss Ramble, in that link above, reports that '... In fact, Tottenham have reported profits in eight of the 10 years since 2005, normally just above break-even, but sizeable returns of £28 million in 2007 and £33 million in 2009.').

How worried Levy must be, trying to keep the club in business by charging the second-highest season ticket prices in the league and delivering one League Cup in fifteen sodding years in return. Forget our billionaire f*cking owner and his mountain of cash (plus the larger mountain he'll make off the profits of a club run almost entirely without his money, which he bought for just 21 million quid and is now hoping to sell for 1.2 billion), however: when the chance came to take a risk with the money we did make, like in 2012 with Harry asking for Tevez, Cahill or Samba while the team was riding high in the league with a shot at the title and CL football seemingly assured, or in the summer of 2012 when a young, prodigal manager asked for the backing to achieve his vision.....our gloriously able and adept chairman shirked at the last. With our own money, too: no cribbing about 'waaaah, living beyond our means! Leeds! Pompey!'. With our own damn money.

This is a sodding bang average chairman riding on sky-high ticket prices and TV deals to grow the value of a club he has no desire to invest in, and little desire to see challenge for anything at all if it means the club either taking a risk of any sort or having the unmitigated temerity to ask for the owners' help in fulfilling its own damn ethos of reaching for glory. If Bill Nicholson asked for 99,999-pound Jimmy Greaves and received bottom of the table Preston's David Sneddon instead because the chairman didn't want to take an unnecessary risk, I doubt he or his chairman would have been particularly remembered by this club. And yet, we're expected to believe that Levy and his 'model' are above reproach, a shining example of how to conduct our affairs in a world where UEFA are actually loosening Fair Play rules in an attempt to get clubs spending and showing ambition again (although our Danny boy uses FFP as an excuse to avoid spending, of course).

A visionary, he isn't. A revolutionary chairman, he isn't. And yet, you have the gall to suggest that anything other than his 'model' is 'lunacy', and that we shouldn't take jibes at ickle Levy's tendency to shirk from any and all risk or financial input into the storied old football club he and his partner happen to own because 'b-b-but look at Pompey or Leeds!', while also all the while pretending that nothing's wrong with the way we recruit players, or the relations between Levy and his many managers, or the 'backing' we supposedly offer to the coaches who are still dim or deluded enough to fall for our claptrap about 'ambitions commensurate with our size'.

Sigh. But what's the use. Go on believing that Stambo and Fazio were players Poch begged for (on his knees) at the meeting of the mighty transfer committee, or that any risk or financial input into our club in pursuit of our dreams is doomsday incarnate, or that AVB, Harry and Juande were all perfectly happy with what they got and it's only me stirring up trouble by making up things about the players they wanted (and believed were possible to acquire) but didn't get, and about the players they wanted to keep but were sold. I'm not expecting miracles, Jord.

Ripping up the entire squad and buying a new one every time you change manager, taking huge losses on transfer fees, is lunacy, pure and simple. On our budget we'd never get anywhere. We don't even hire managers, we hire coaches. Their job is simple, get the best out of the squad of players we have. Every summer when there's a chance to make changes he will have a say, but again we have to look beyond his tenure when deciding whether a player is worth the investment. It's how football works these days. Long gone is the time when the manager was the supreme ruler.

It was the path we set out on in 2004, where coaches could come and go without massive upheaval. Post league cup win Ramos derailed things somewhat, but it looks like we've finally completely embraced that setup. A big part of it is recouping transfer fees and occasionally landing a big one like we did with Berbatov, Modric, Bale. With the current revamp of the scouting setup we should be much better prepared in terms of finding replacements.

As for Stambouli, I'm going by this post:

Was just reading that on train - says Southampton had scouted and earmarked Stambouli as a replacement for Schneiderlin last summer in case he left, (before we signed him) - could explain that transfer i guess

The online version (linked in the previous post in that thread) doesn't say this specifically, so I don't know if billy got it wrong or he read something else.

Fazio, the reason he cost a third of Lovren and Mussachio was his contract buyout clause. Just because he wasn't constantly mentioned by the papers, those fountains of truth, doesn't mean Poch wanted him any less. That's just assumptions based on little more than opinion. It's just sound practice to pursue more than one target until you know for sure who's gettable and who's not.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Ripping up the entire squad and buying a new one every time you change manager, taking huge losses on transfer fees, is lunacy, pure and simple. On our budget we'd never get anywhere. We don't even hire managers, we hire coaches. Their job is simple, get the best out of the squad of players we have. Every summer when there's a chance to make changes he will have a say, but again we have to look beyond his tenure when deciding whether a player is worth the investment. It's how football works these days. Long gone is the time when the manager was the supreme ruler.

It was the path we set out on in 2004, where coaches could come and go without massive upheaval. Post league cup win Ramos derailed things somewhat, but it looks like we've finally completely embraced that setup. A big part of it is recouping transfer fees and occasionally landing a big one like we did with Berbatov, Modric, Bale. With the current revamp of the scouting setup we should be much better prepared in terms of finding replacements.

As for Stambouli, I'm going by this post:



The online version (linked in the previous post in that thread) doesn't say this specifically, so I don't know if billy got it wrong or he read something else.

Fazio, the reason he cost a third of Lovren and Mussachio was his contract buyout clause. Just because he wasn't constantly mentioned by the papers, those fountains of truth, doesn't mean Poch wanted him any less. That's just assumptions based on little more than opinion. It's just sound practice to pursue more than one target until you know for sure who's gettable and who's not.

Ardiles wrote on his Twitter at the time that Poch was delighted to get Fazio

People always put Mussachio on a pedal stool, but the truth is Fazio has always been ahead of him in the national team pecking order. They are also quite different players (Mussachio is short but quicker) - I suspect we were after both - Fazio to replace Dawson and Mussachio to replace Kaboul

 

[harr1984]

I was at Wembley when we beat Chelsea to win the Carling Cup. But I'm afraid I remember with much more fondness our European nights in the CL....

 

[billyiddo]

'Pedal stool'

 

[SteveAWOL]

good work, they certainly passed me by, their ios app is pretty good, set it to international and you'll avoid all the noise

Well the Reuters news app has thankfully been pretty much Goon free today like you said but unfortunately the Twitter app decided to push this notification my way...

https://twitter.com/x/status/604995021914402817

 

[Baleforce]

ouch

glad it rained

 

[glasgowspur]

I picked trophies because let's be honest without some major change we aren't going win the league or ECL. Both of those are now no more than rich men's baubles. What's the odds on Man U, Emirates Marketing Project or Chelsea not winning the league in the next 10 years? The days of Ajax, Porto, Celtic or anyone outside the big four leagues are long gone as are the likes of Everton, villa and I would even include Dortmund athletico Madrid and teams on that level.
Been following Spurs since 79/80

 

[90sSpursBook]

It's got to be a trophy every season surely? I'd quite happily finish 12th next season and win the League Cup.

We have a slightly warped memory of the Champions League because we did very well in our only season competing in. White Hart Lane was rocking and I had the pleasure of going to the San Siro and Bernabeau - 2 stadiums I never thought I'd see us play in for a competitive game - we did punch above our weight that season and its very unlikely that we'd get anywhere near as far as the QF next time as based on our performances against the better teams in the Europa League there's a good chance that should we get back in anytime soon we'd either bomb at the play-off round or not progress through the group stages

For those who have voted for CL qualification I'd be interested to know whether, if we did qualify for the group stage would you rather us be given a less glamourous group with a decent chance of progressing or to get Barcelona, Bayern Munich and go out?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Ripping up the entire squad and buying a new one every time you change manager, taking huge losses on transfer fees, is lunacy, pure and simple. On our budget we'd never get anywhere. We don't even hire managers, we hire coaches. Their job is simple, get the best out of the squad of players we have. Every summer when there's a chance to make changes he will have a say, but again we have to look beyond his tenure when deciding whether a player is worth the investment. It's how football works these days. Long gone is the time when the manager was the supreme ruler.

It was the path we set out on in 2004, where coaches could come and go without massive upheaval. Post league cup win Ramos derailed things somewhat, but it looks like we've finally completely embraced that setup. A big part of it is recouping transfer fees and occasionally landing a big one like we did with Berbatov, Modric, Bale. With the current revamp of the scouting setup we should be much better prepared in terms of finding replacements.

As for Stambouli, I'm going by this post:



The online version (linked in the previous post in that thread) doesn't say this specifically, so I don't know if billy got it wrong or he read something else.

Fazio, the reason he cost a third of Lovren and Mussachio was his contract buyout clause. Just because he wasn't constantly mentioned by the papers, those fountains of truth, doesn't mean Poch wanted him any less. That's just assumptions based on little more than opinion. It's just sound practice to pursue more than one target until you know for sure who's gettable and who's not.

Derailed it how exactly? By...erm, having his best players sold out from under him and replaced by second-rate players he didn't want, which is supposedly the end goal of this glorious scheme of ours? Again, I can only direct you to his own comments on the matter:

"....‘Then you don’t sack the manager for not always being in the top four,’ he said. ‘I didn’t have a problem with selling Berbatov, so long as someone came in to replace him.

‘The two strikers that I asked for were Samuel Eto’o and David Villa. But we were left with Darren Bent and Roman Pavlyuchenko.

‘We started the league and we couldn’t beat anyone; we couldn’t score a goal under a rainbow and in the eighth week I’m gone.’

Ramos manages a smile when he recalls the tragi-comic nature of his only pre-season at Tottenham in which the striker he didn’t fancy - Bent - couldn’t stop scoring.

‘All the goals we got that pre-season, he scored! Hell! It’s the worst thing that could have happened.

‘We won every game and he scores 11 or 12 goals and so the chairman thinks, “This guy Berbatov out, this guy Robbie Keane out!”

‘And then what happens? In December they spent £51m to rectify the mistakes. They say, “It’s the manager who doesn’t understand. He doesn’t know anything. The stupid Spaniard hasn’t got a clue. We’ll blame him”.

‘The guy that sold Keane and Berbatov wasn’t to blame and yet they had to spend £51m to sort it out!’"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Tottenham-just-care-money.html#ixzz3bgaHAnNx


I fail to understand why this great 'strategy' of replacing players our managers (not coaches, managers, given that the most successful one we've had in recent years has doggedly asserted that he was and is a manager, not a glorified youth coach come good with no say over what bargain basement throwaways he gets to use) want with players they definitely do not want is such a taboo thing to criticise. And as for Stambouli and Fazio, again, I'm not questioning bill, but I am questioning the reliability of information that paints Stambouli as a Schneiderlin replacement: an assertion so patently ridiculous in light of the time he's spent on the pitch or in the manager's plans (pathetically low by any standard) that it's difficult to take it with a straight face. And as for Fazio, again, we went for him after we went for all the aforementioned players, when we presumably were well aware of his release clause and could presumably have activated it at any earlier point if we had so desired to do so: what does that tell you? It's sound strategy to have lists of gettable players, but when all our managers right from 2008 onwards have complained about routinely being given the very cheapest options on that list, is it really so difficult to imagine that there's something stupidly wrong with our transfer policy?

Sigh. It never fails to baffle me how charging sky-high ticket prices and riding TV deals to increase the value of the club (i.e, with very little actual effort put in) while roundly tinkling off all our managers and routinely shirking at the slightest risk when it comes to backing them or the club can be considered so GHod-like by some otherwise eminently intelligent posters.

 

[Modric THFC]

Another question. Would the trophy every season lot be happy happy if it was the Johnson's Paint Cup?
I mean thats a day out at Wembley with no one watching apart from the two teams in it. Exact same as the League Cup.

 

[Papercut]

Another question. Would the trophy every season lot be happy happy if it was the Johnson's Paint Cup?
I mean thats a day out at Wembley with no one watching apart from the two teams in it. Exact same as the League Cup.

And previously: "The idea that Cups mean glory is not true anymore."

Where do you get your facts from?

 

[Baleforce]

It's got to be a trophy every season surely? I'd quite happily finish 12th next season and win the League Cup.

We have a slightly warped memory of the Champions League because we did very well in our only season competing in. White Hart Lane was rocking and I had the pleasure of going to the San Siro and Bernabeau - 2 stadiums I never thought I'd see us play in for a competitive game - we did punch above our weight that season and its very unlikely that we'd get anywhere near as far as the QF next time as based on our performances against the better teams in the Europa League there's a good chance that should we get back in anytime soon we'd either bomb at the play-off round or not progress through the group stages

For those who have voted for CL qualification I'd be interested to know whether, if we did qualify for the group stage would you rather us be given a less glamourous group with a decent chance of progressing or to get Barcelona, Bayern Munich and go out?

CL voter, easier group for me, get as far as possible, more games = more money = better players = more wins = more money = better players = more wins and on and on and on

 

[Baleforce]

Another question. Would the trophy every season lot be happy happy if it was the Johnson's Paint Cup?
I mean thats a day out at Wembley with no one watching apart from the two teams in it. Exact same as the League Cup.

I'd say the league cup has passed the FA cup now, it's out of the way sooner and there are no non league teams in it so you don't have to go to those awful ploughed fields and get changed in a portakabin

 

[Charlie]

The only way to consistently win cups is to consistently be in the CL. Otherwise, our best players will always leave.

 

[glasgowspur]

The only way to consistently win cups is to consistently be in the CL. Otherwise, our best players will always leave.

Up until last season it hadn't helped arsenal for how many years?
I do agree in general that one will follow the other. If you can say to prospective players come to WHL and win cups they will come. Those better players should take you up the league.
Problem is which way do you prioritise because for a club of our size it would be very difficult to do both from where we are.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Another question. Would the trophy every season lot be happy happy if it was the Johnson's Paint Cup?
I mean thats a day out at Wembley with no one watching apart from the two teams in it. Exact same as the League Cup.

Don't think we're eligible to play in the JPT, but essentially, I'd support us winning it every year, yeah. But we wouldn't need to weaken our league team for the JPT, surely: so the way I see it, that rather negates your initial point, no? .