The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

[WhoopWhoop]

Lost more games than he's won should I say.

 

[indianspur]

Its probably a good thing that most are underwhelmed by this potential appointment of Poch. Expectations will be reduced hopefully and IMO that's a good thing for the club.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Those of you who want to feel the optimism, here is a great article on Pochettino's pending appointment:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/05/27/4808252/-

Thanks, that's got the stat I was looking for, he got Soton to finish 8th whilst the club were paying wages that should've placed them 18th.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

On what basis? His style of play is different to AVB and his personality seems very different too. Is it because he's young and foreign?

There are superficial similarities to avb (young, foreign, inexperienced) but don't forget when avb came to chel**** he was supposed to have been a young dynamic coach who would bring exciting attacking football to their play.

Before he started at spurs the expectation was the same.

The pressure at spurs is of a different order compared to Southampton or espanol. Let's see how attacking pochettinho is when the vultures are circling

 

[indianspur]

Its guess its like Arsanal appointed Wenger who? Yes proper football people knew about him but the general feeling amongst those fans was underwhelming. He just came from Japan after all Let's get behind Pochaman, it might just be an unexpectadely exciting ride

 

[indianspur]

There are superficial similarities to avb (young, foreign, inexperienced) but don't forget when avb came to chel**** he was supposed to have been a young dynamic coach who would bring exciting attacking football to their play.

Before he started at spurs the expectation was the same.

The pressure at spurs is of a different order compared to Southampton or espanol. Let's see how attacking pochettinho is when the vultures are circling

Yes, the expectations of avb coming from Porto were huge. He didn't fulfil those expectations at Chelski or at Spurs. There really aren't the same expectations with Poch. its a good thing I think

 

[kanoute16]

If you read a little about him, one of his strengths is getting players on side and working with them closely. It seems that a lot of the Southampton players feel he has helped them to improve and he has created a great atmosphere around the club.

This imo is what we need and what has been lacking at Spurs since Harry was sacked. Rogers has done this at Liverpool as has Wenger whose teams play with belief whatever personnel they have. I agree that his stats are not that that impressive and it is underwhelming when you look at his record with Espanoyl. However I am pleased that Levy has learnt that the big names are not necessarily the best managers. Obviously LvG would have been a great coup but we were never going to compete for his signature with Utd.

Regarding the similarity so many see with Avb, I don't quite understand it? Avb had been sacked by Chelsea because he was unable to win over their players, made weird tactical decisions and had lost the confidence of the Russian 9 months into his reign. Poch is admired by his players and had to be convinced to stay on after Cortese left the club. The key now is that Poch gets on with Baldini and Levy and that they listen to him. If he is appointed i think it will be a test of Levy's management more than anything. Is he prepared to back his manager and trust he will do whatever is best for the club?

 

[NickTB]

The thing that worries me is Poch didn't have too many highly paid prima Donna's to "Convince". At Tottenham he will. I wonder if he can overcome that hurdle?

 

[braineclipse]

I hate to put a damper on things, but I simply don't see how appointing a manager with a 1.39 Points per Game Premier League record is a vast improvement on the bloke we just fired, who had a 1.95 Points per Game Premier League record.

Or am I missing something?

:ross:

Seriously, this could have been posted by that Arsenal troll and it would have made more sense.

He did not say he wanted jose mourinhio though he just that he isnt overly enthused with patch I share he's view but do not expect us to win the title next year ?

Another thing that bothers me about patch is that and i stand to be corrected has he ever stayed at a club longer than 1.5/ 2 years seems like he is trying to fast track to the top ?

A bit over 2.5 years at Espanyol actually. Where his contract was terminated by mutual consent. He didn't leave to go to a bigger club at that point.

He's stated that he would be loyal to Cortese, the chairman that hired him at Southampton. Southampton got rid of him after the ownership kerfuffle and at one point Poch said that of Cortese left he would leave too.

I cannot see how this makes him look like someone trying to fast track to the top any more than most managers.

There are superficial similarities to avb (young, foreign, inexperienced) but don't forget when avb came to chel**** he was supposed to have been a young dynamic coach who would bring exciting attacking football to their play.

Before he started at spurs the expectation was the same.

The pressure at spurs is of a different order compared to Southampton or espanol. Let's see how attacking pochettinho is when the vultures are circling

So the pressure is different at Spurs, that would be the same for all our targets apart from Benitez perhaps. This seems like just another superficial similarity with AVB.

 

[Yiddo]

That's exactly how and who we should be comparing him with.

 

[Craig_J]

If you read a little about him, one of his strengths is getting players on side and working with them closely. It seems that a lot of the Southampton players feel he has helped them to improve and he has created a great atmosphere around the club.

This imo is what we need and what has been lacking at Spurs since Harry was sacked. Rogers has done this at Liverpool as has Wenger whose teams play with belief whatever personnel they have. I agree that his stats are not that that impressive and it is underwhelming when you look at his record with Espanoyl. However I am pleased that Levy has learnt that the big names are not necessarily the best managers. Obviously LvG would have been a great coup but we were never going to compete for his signature with Utd.

Regarding the similarity so many see with Avb, I don't quite understand it? Avb had been sacked by Chelsea because he was unable to win over their players, made weird tactical decisions and had lost the confidence of the Russian 9 months into his reign. Poch is admired by his players and had to be convinced to stay on after Cortese left the club. The key now is that Poch gets on with Baldini and Levy and that they listen to him. If he is appointed i think it will be a test of Levy's management more than anything. Is he prepared to back his manager and trust he will do whatever is best for the club?

AVB had been sacked by Chelsea but he so had Ancelotti, Mourinhio, Ranieri etc. Poch (I still don't know how to spell his last name and can't be bothered to learn it) was allowed to leave through 'mutual consent' by Espanyol which is a nice way of saying he was asked to leave and shut the door himself.

I do hope I am wrong and that he surprises me, gets us playing well and maybe win a trophy or two but I'm very skeptical. I didn't really want Sherwood to get sacked anyway unless we were going to get LVG. There's no one that outstanding out there but this week I would have gone for Ranieri. More experience, well respected and much safer.

 

[Lost Mango]

Lost more games than he's won should I say.

What was Rodgers win % before he went to Liverpool (or even now?)

What was Martinez on before he went to Everton?

Win % is contextual as are all stats. A good manager at a poor club (i.e. One paying poor wages as that correlates strongly with league position) is always likely to have a lower % than an average manager at a rich club. Does that make him a worse manager? Espanyol were low end La liga in his time and Southampton pay the 18th amount in salaries. What win % would you expect from those two clubs no matter the manager?

 

[Lost Mango]

What was Rodgers win % before he went to Liverpool (or even now?)

What was Martinez on before he went to Everton?

Win % is contextual as are all stats. A good manager at a poor club (i.e. One paying poor wages as that correlates strongly with league position) is always likely to have a lower % than an average manager at a rich club. Does that make him a worse manager? Espanyol were low end La liga in his time and Southampton pay the 18th amount in salaries. What win % would you expect from those two clubs no matter the manager?

Thanks Yiddo - you did the hard work for me!

 

[braineclipse]

If you read a little about him, one of his strengths is getting players on side and working with them closely. It seems that a lot of the Southampton players feel he has helped them to improve and he has created a great atmosphere around the club.

This imo is what we need and what has been lacking at Spurs since Harry was sacked. Rogers has done this at Liverpool as has Wenger whose teams play with belief whatever personnel they have. I agree that his stats are not that that impressive and it is underwhelming when you look at his record with Espanoyl. However I am pleased that Levy has learnt that the big names are not necessarily the best managers. Obviously LvG would have been a great coup but we were never going to compete for his signature with Utd.

Regarding the similarity so many see with Avb, I don't quite understand it? Avb had been sacked by Chelsea because he was unable to win over their players, made weird tactical decisions and had lost the confidence of the Russian 9 months into his reign. Poch is admired by his players and had to be convinced to stay on after Cortese left the club. The key now is that Poch gets on with Baldini and Levy and that they listen to him. If he is appointed i think it will be a test of Levy's management more than anything. Is he prepared to back his manager and trust he will do whatever is best for the club?

Been a lot of positive comments coming out from Southampton players over the last weeks. A lot of really encouraging things said about him.

Winning over the players will be important for sure.

The thing that worries me is Poch didn't have too many highly paid prima Donna's to "Convince". At Tottenham he will. I wonder if he can overcome that hurdle?

Good point. Although I don't think we have a lot of prima donna players. Ade is the obvious one, but otherwise?

 

[Grassroots]

What was Rodgers win % before he went to Liverpool (or even now?)

What was Martinez on before he went to Everton?

Win % is contextual as are all stats. A good manager at a poor club (i.e. One paying poor wages as that correlates strongly with league position) is always likely to have a lower % than an average manager at a rich club. Does that make him a worse manager? Espanyol were low end La liga in his time and Southampton pay the 18th amount in salaries. What win % would you expect from those two clubs no matter the manager?

The 18th wages thing does not wash with me as a large chunk or most of he's squad came through the ranks and only just started making a name last season so would be lower club wage bracket anyway no ?

What was osvaldo on or the other signings would be more telling as they were bought in

 

[scaramanga]

Good point. Although I don't think we have a lot of prima donna players. Ade is the obvious one, but otherwise?

Benny to some extent I'd say. Maybe not a prima donna but certainly likely to take a bit of work if he's to become part of a highly focussed unit.

There's also the player mentioned in the King Testamonial (sic) thread, if those rumours are true.

 

[Cotswold]

it'd be interesting to produce a list of 'pro' or 'anti' Poch before his reign begins and see how people feel about their selection this time next year.

 

[Grassroots]

it'd be interesting to produce a list of 'pro' or 'anti' Poch before his reign begins and see how people feel about their selection this time next year.

I am not anti poch just very pro fdb
If it's poch and thats looking very likely I hope he smashes the living **** out of the league and is the biggest success the club have ever seen alex fungusun style.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

I found this section particularly interesting from that Goal.com article…

"The hallmark of Southampton is their relentless, structured pressing, which draws parallels with the intensity shown by Barcelona in the early years of Pep Guardiola’s tenure. “Our style of play is to win back the ball as soon as possible and then play it,” says Pochettino. “It may seem like we are running more, but really we are just running in a more organised way.”

Unsurprisingly, only Emirates Marketing Project (147) and Chelsea (153) have won possession in the final third more often than Southampton (146), while only the Londoners have completed more tackles in the opposition’s third.

Such aggressive defending from the front, coupled with a more disciplined shape, has turned the Saints into one of the hardest sides to breakdown. Statistically they have the sixth best defence in the division, having conceded 46 goals, while Emirates Marketing Project (122) and Chelsea (123) are the only sides to have conceded fewer shots on target than the Saints (130)."


This all sounds fantastic in theory, certainly a style I would approve of as I love to see the players actually working their asses off. However, whilst this was clearly fine for those with a hard-working English-ethic such as Lambert, Lallana and Rodriguez, can we reeeeeallllly see the likes of Adebayor and Soldado fitting in here!? I'm not suggesting they can't be arsed, but more if they have the credentials and stamina to do this for 90mins week in week out!?
Soldado isn't the quickest player by far and his tackling is usually reckless. I imagine he'd sooner exert his energy finding space in the box rather than running from left to right to close down defences. As for Ade, we've seen he can have days where he works tirelessly, but all season?? I'm not so convinced.

The same could possible also be argued of Eriksen, Townsend, Siggy and certainly Paulinho! How will this ethos sit with those of the current squad who could possibly be deemed passengers? Sadly, the only one i can think of from attacking midfield upwards who does work hard and track back is Lennon! (

Enter Harry Kane (Lambert mkII) maybe?

 

[NickTB]

Benny to some extent I'd say. Maybe not a prima donna but certainly likely to take a bit of work if he's to become part of a highly focussed unit.

There's also the player mentioned in the King Testamonial (sic) thread, if those rumours are true.

You could possibly add Vertonghen to that tooo