Subway.. What no bacon!?

[braineclipse]

My first sentence was about the part I bolded, about this being a potentially sound business decision. You're just not in a position to know that, and neither am I. I'm going with the assumption that a huge multinational fast food franchise knows how to make sound business decisions, seems safe enough to me.

From a business viewpoint I think a restaurant being able to brand itself as "entirely Halal" or "all food Kosher" or similar could be beneficial in some areas.

My second sentence was essentially that I think some religious people will get upset by what seems completely reasonable to me, although I worded it as the opposite of the specific example stated by you, I stand by it. Seems like an even safer assumption considering the kind of stuff that upsets religious people.

I'm not insinuating that a food establishment is incapable of keeping their meats apart, more that not all customers will trust them to. Or that customers perhaps will prefer a restaurant where all the food served is in accordance with their specific dietary restrictions. Or that just the "food touching" issue perhaps isn't the only one here. Perhaps some religious people will be unwilling to spend their money in a restaurant that serves food that hasn't been prepared in what they think is the way ordered by GHod.

 

[Sandman]

When you put it like that you make a good point. If they would feel like that on possibly entering an establishment and thus decided to never use that chain of shops then it makes sense.

I still feel though its a world gone mad. As the world gets bigger and more unified their are more and more divisions rising at the same time. Im all for multiculturalism, mixing together etc. But in my mind that means we have to be accepting of each others practices and not get upset about them. An example of that is that every chicken shop in Walthamstow is Halal. does it bother me that I have to eat meat that has been killed in a certain way. No. Im happy for them to make it open to all. After all its still chicken or lamb etc. But I would hope for mass choice. Cater for all and allow us to have the choice. Not take choice away from us no matter what its location.

 

[Superhudd]

good post sandman

If the choice is taken from us here where does it end. Will I soon not be able to go to a restaurant in central London because all the meat has to be halal?

 

[Baleforce]

When you put it like that you make a good point. If they would feel like that on possibly entering an establishment and thus decided to never use that chain of shops then it makes sense.

I still feel though its a world gone mad. As the world gets bigger and more unified their are more and more divisions rising at the same time. Im all for multiculturalism, mixing together etc. But in my mind that means we have to be accepting of each others practices and not get upset about them. An example of that is that every chicken shop in Walthamstow is Halal. does it bother me that I have to eat meat that has been killed in a certain way. No. Im happy for them to make it open to all. After all its still chicken or lamb etc. But I would hope for mass choice. Cater for all and allow us to have the choice. Not take choice away from us no matter what its location.

exactly, so why not go first

 

[Baleforce]

good post sandman

If the choice is taken from us here where does it end. Will I soon not be able to go to a restaurant in central London because all the meat has to be halal?

they are not taking a choice away, they are adding another choice for other customers, you can still get bacon in subway's B, C & D, its only A that isn't stocking it

 

[jts1882]

Yup that is precisely it. None of the Islamic finance products are cheaper. Not one. Especially the mortgages. They are more expensive by a distance. It's semantics. They replace interest payments with joint ownership where you repay the loan and rent st same time. Word play. I don't buy in to them personally at all.

I heard a documentary on this a few years ago. There is a small group of financial imams who have got extremely rich approving Islamic finance products. Seems a bit of a con to me.

 

[Superhudd]

they are not taking a choice away, they are adding another choice for other customers, you can still get bacon in subway's B, C & D, its only A that isn't stocking it

They clearly are otherwise I could get bacon in A :lol:

 

[braineclipse]

When you put it like that you make a good point. If they would feel like that on possibly entering an establishment and thus decided to never use that chain of shops then it makes sense.

I still feel though its a world gone mad. As the world gets bigger and more unified their are more and more divisions rising at the same time. Im all for multiculturalism, mixing together etc. But in my mind that means we have to be accepting of each others practices and not get upset about them. An example of that is that every chicken shop in Walthamstow is Halal. does it bother me that I have to eat meat that has been killed in a certain way. No. Im happy for them to make it open to all. After all its still chicken or lamb etc. But I would hope for mass choice. Cater for all and allow us to have the choice. Not take choice away from us no matter what its location.

Multiculturalism has to be implemented correctly, I agree. On this issue I'm neither right nor left I feel.

My feelings on halal in general are mixed. I'm a meat eater, but I realize that there are ethical arguments for vegetarianism. At the very least I think it's a good standard that animals shouldn't suffer unnecessarily. If I'm presented with unmarked meat that is halal meat butchered in such a way that the animals suffered needlessly that makes me uncomfortable to be sure (I realize that's not all halal and kosher meat).

For me the freedom of choice you talk of has to be extended to businesses though. You cannot expect all businesses to cater for all. In an open market various businesses will try to fill various niches and I have no issue with some of them choosing to aim their business strategy at a specific religious groups. No one is taking the choice away from you, you still choose where and what you eat. They choose what they provide.

Had this been a new or expanding chain of halal-only fast food restaurants I don't think this would have been an issue for many people at all. But because it's a change from an existing brand people object, but that to me is part of multiculturalism as various cultures exist in one area and one culture is growing existing businesses will try to change to fit with the preferences or requirements of that culture.

To me at least this kind of article is a massive red herring in any serious conversation about multiculturalism. It panders to those who are afraid of change (most of us), negative gut reactions (again, most of us), and to some extent to outright bigots (just to be clear, not saying you guys are bigots!)

 

[braineclipse]

They clearly are otherwise I could get bacon in A :lol:

But isn't this is like saying that if Subway closed down one of their "restaurants" they would be taking your choice away?

Shouldn't they have the choice to serve the food they prefer to serve? Do you have a right to get bacon in all restaurants?

 

[Sandman]

But isn't this is like saying that if Subway closed down one of their "restaurants" they would be taking your choice away?

Shouldn't they have the choice to serve the food they prefer to serve? Do you have a right to get bacon in all restaurants?

Do you have a right to be able to get Halal meat in all restaurants? i would say it would be a good option. So in reverse that means that a shop that use to cater in one direction should add the option not swap it. That for me is being multicultural in a very small way.

 

[braineclipse]

Do you have a right to be able to get Halal meat in all restaurants? i would say it would be a good option. So in reverse that means that a shop that use to cater in one direction should add the option not swap it. That for me is being multicultural in a very small way.

I obviously do no have that right, nor would I want that right if I followed Halal dietary restrictions.

Trying something like this from a regulatory standpoint would obviously be a nightmare. Even just as "the expected norm" it seems like a terrible idea and for me nothing like what multiculturalism should be, in fact quite the opposite. Anyone claiming that it would be a good multicultural idea that people should have a right to get Halal meat in all restaurants would get a swift and decided head shake and eye roll from me.

 

[Baleforce]

They clearly are otherwise I could get bacon in A :lol:

but they are just over the street, I can't get LPG in my nearest Shell garage but it doesn't mean they are discriminating against me

 

[Lily White]

Its all about free choice. They don't touch bacon for religious reasons, and I don't touch religion for bacon reasons.

 

[AuroRaman]

good post sandman

If the choice is taken from us here where does it end. Will I soon not be able to go to a restaurant in central London because all the meat has to be halal?

No. You have the choice to dine or not to dine in a restaurant serving only halal meat

 

[Sandman]

Its all about free choice. They don't touch bacon for religious reasons, and I don't touch religion for bacon reasons.

LOL like it . . .

 

[Papercut]

Is bacon the only meat you eat you drama queen?

 

[Superhudd]

But isn't this is like saying that if Subway closed down one of their "restaurants" they would be taking your choice away?

Shouldn't they have the choice to serve the food they prefer to serve? Do you have a right to get bacon in all restaurants?

If its been on the menu since it opened and the reasons why they are taking that choice away are religious reasons then damn right they should still be serving bacon.. some kind of mad cows for pork, yeah take it down. Religion should not dictate how people outside of that religion live there lifes... whatever the religion.

BTW I was glad last week the the PM got pulled up on calling this a Christian nation. There are nutters and Atheists

 

[Superhudd]

No. You have the choice to dine or not to dine in a restaurant serving only halal meat

Yes I do, but if that restaurant was a regular haunt of mine and they changed over night to halal meat because they prefer that customer to me then they have discrimination on there hands... no!

 

[monkeybarry]

Subway serve meat?! I always wondered what those dry tasteless slabs were supposed to be

 

[monkeybarry]

Yes I do, but if that restaurant was a regular haunt of mine and they changed over night to halal meat because they prefer that customer to me then they have discrimination on there hands... no!

You are right.
But using that argument, all businesses are discriminatory

If subway were sensible they would offer both.