Son Heung-Min

[DeanoAustin]

I think Son is brilliant at certain aspects of the Captain role. You could see last season when we scored a winner when he had been subbed off that he was all in on it with not a thought for personal glory. Likewise when Richy scored to take pressure off himself, Sonny couldn’t have been happier for him. That’s good captaincy and good leadership. On the flip side, I think he neither has the personality or plays in the right part of the pitch to do what was needed last night. Then again, it doesn’t need to be the captain that does that bit. There was nothing stopping Romero, VdV or Bentancur from grabbing us by the scruff of the neck and stopping Leicester’s momentum. But they all looked shell shocked too.

Thought Sonny was actually very good first half yesterday too.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think Son is brilliant at certain aspects of the Captain role. You could see last season when we scored a winner when he had been subbed off that he was all in on it with not a thought for personal glory. Likewise when Richy scored to take pressure off himself, Sonny couldn’t have been happier for him. That’s good captaincy and good leadership. On the flip side, I think he neither has the personality or plays in the right part of the pitch to do what was needed last night. Then again, it doesn’t need to be the captain that does that bit. There was nothing stopping Romero, VdV or Bentancur from grabbing us by the scruff of the neck and stopping Leicester’s momentum. But they all looked shell shocked too.

Thought Sonny was actually very good first half yesterday too.

Ideal solution is sonny club captain and someone else on field captain.
I'd go for Porro.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What do you mean by lead on the pitch? Specifically what is he not doing that a captain should do? Do you believe there’s only one way to be a good captain?

Yeah on the pitch you lead
He has not shown any signs of that in any games where the worm has turned
In fact… he has almost hid
Off the pitch it’s the polar opposite
I see nothing on the pitch at the games form him making people accountable, telling people what to do, how to react, how to change things. That’s on the pitch leadership

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think Son is brilliant at certain aspects of the Captain role. You could see last season when we scored a winner when he had been subbed off that he was all in on it with not a thought for personal glory. Likewise when Richy scored to take pressure off himself, Sonny couldn’t have been happier for him. That’s good captaincy and good leadership. On the flip side, I think he neither has the personality or plays in the right part of the pitch to do what was needed last night. Then again, it doesn’t need to be the captain that does that bit. There was nothing stopping Romero, VdV or Bentancur from grabbing us by the scruff of the neck and stopping Leicester’s momentum. But they all looked shell shocked too.

Thought Sonny was actually very good first half yesterday too.

He is great when all is good
He can do the happy stuff
But making people accountable… not so sure

 

[DeanoAustin]

He is great when all is gold
He can do the happy stuff
But making people accountable… not so sure

Me neither but, fact is, I don't really know as I don't see what goes on in the dressing room. That's for Ange to evaluate.

I know Sonny comes across a bit happy go lucky but the lad has to have some real steel in his character when you read what he went through to become a pro footballer.

 

[DubSpur]

You gave two options:

“Was he getting onto players, encouraging those that needed, bollicking those that needed it?”

So yes, I did and often do see him encouraging players.

I’m defending him because he’s a quite clearly world class — there’s barely a team in the world who would not want him. I think the reason he and Romero in particular were picked out are proof of this: probably our only two world class players, and we need more from both of them.

I didn't see him do anything when we were under the cosh, he wasn't vocal and he didn't even lead by example, not captain material.

He's quiet clearly not world class and neither is Romero. Son is in decline no matter how much you want to deny it. Romero makes too many mistakes, like last night, to be world class.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Me neither but, fact is, I don't really know as I don't see what goes on in the dressing room. That's for Ange to evaluate.

I know Sonny comes across a bit happy go lucky but the lad has to have some real steel in his character when you read what he went through to become a pro footballer.

all footballers have to have the mind set
That a given for me
But character and leadership is different

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think Son is brilliant at certain aspects of the Captain role. You could see last season when we scored a winner when he had been subbed off that he was all in on it with not a thought for personal glory. Likewise when Richy scored to take pressure off himself, Sonny couldn’t have been happier for him. That’s good captaincy and good leadership. On the flip side, I think he neither has the personality or plays in the right part of the pitch to do what was needed last night. Then again, it doesn’t need to be the captain that does that bit. There was nothing stopping Romero, VdV or Bentancur from grabbing us by the scruff of the neck and stopping Leicester’s momentum. But they all looked shell shocked too.

Thought Sonny was actually very good first half yesterday too.

He had a good half but did pass backwards.. a lot
Don’t know if it was a plan but seemed to be frequent

 

[SubZero]

He’s an insanely good captain.

By what metrics is he an "insanely" good captain? Look, I have no problems with different views, but to me a captain has to have certain elements that aren't necessarily what others look for in a captain. First of all, presence. A captain for me has to be both able and willing to be in the middle of it. Protesting obvious ref errors and so on. Communicating with players. Encourage and kick asses alike. That's why I'm not a big fan of keepers as captains.

Secondly, I don't think captaincy should be some sort of honorary position, nor should it (necessarily) reflect your time at the club (not saying it is in Son's case but still). But that is my opinion, and based on what we have lacked for so long it doesn't look like Son can bring it either, the extreme will to turn things around when needed, lead by example and keep calmness in or fire up the team. Your view may differ.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Did the captaincy stop him from being subbed? Looked like the subs were compromised by leaving him on - what was the formation after the subs?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Did the captaincy stop him from being subbed? Looked like the subs were compromised by leaving him on - what was the formation after the subs?

Hard to day but after a promising first half he was non existant second so you have to wonder

 

[parklane1]

Really sad to say this but Sonny needs to be left on the bench at the moment. Never agreed with him being named capt on the field either, the best capts are those who can gonad players if and when needed and inspire them when they are doing well. Son is too nice a guy to do both. Great capt for the team off the pitch and always says the right things off the pitch but IMO he is not the right man to do the job on the pitch.IMO

 

[Raziel]

Did the captaincy stop him from being subbed? Looked like the subs were compromised by leaving him on - what was the formation after the subs?

4-1-4-1, he got taken off in end

Really sad to say this but Sonny needs to be left on the bench at the moment. Never agreed with him being named capt on the field either, the best capts are those who can gonad* players if and when needed and inspire them when they are doing well. Son is too nice a guy to do both. Great capt for the team off the pitch and always says the right things off the pitch but IMO he is not the right man to do the job on the pitch.IMO

For who? we don't have a better LW option (not even close)

The challenge for Ange is does he want to stick to this 4-3-3 initial model?

- Son is best at LW, Werner/Johnson can be good subs against tiring legs
- Deki clearly looks best at CM behind striker vs. out wide on right, but we don't play that way
- RW is a weakness that is hurting the team (and Son), because Johnson was ineffective yesterday, Leicester was able to go 5 at the back and double up on Son's side

So we either continue to shoehorn brick in, or do we adjust the formation a bit (it looked like 4-1-4-1 after subs for a bit)

 

[parklane1]

4-1-4-1, he got taken off in end



For who? we don't have a better LW option (not even close)

The challenge for Ange is does he want to stick to this 4-3-3 initial model?

- Son is best at LW, Werner/Johnson can be good subs against tiring legs
- Deki clearly looks best at CM behind striker vs. out wide on right, but we don't play that way
- RW is a weakness that is hurting the team (and Son), because Johnson was ineffective yesterday, Leicester was able to go 5 at the back and double up on Son's side

So we either continue to shoehorn brick in, or do we adjust the formation a bit (it looked like 4-1-4-1 after subs for a bit)

Son looks like he is running on empty at this time and its showing in most games, to be honest i would play Richarlson LW he has played there mostly at Everton and offers more of a goal threat at the moment. Lets be honest Son has been flogged to death [ on and off the pitch] over the last couple of years and he is not getting any younger.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

4-1-4-1, he got taken off in end



For who? we don't have a better LW option (not even close)

The challenge for Ange is does he want to stick to this 4-3-3 initial model?

- Son is best at LW, Werner/Johnson can be good subs against tiring legs
- Deki clearly looks best at CM behind striker vs. out wide on right, but we don't play that way
- RW is a weakness that is hurting the team (and Son), because Johnson was ineffective yesterday, Leicester was able to go 5 at the back and double up on Son's side

So we either continue to shoehorn brick in, or do we adjust the formation a bit (it looked like 4-1-4-1 after subs for a bit)

Mate
Watch it back
They didn’t double up on son
He just dissapered once Maddison stopped passing to him
It’s a huge issue how often we go left with some impetus but right so fudging slowly that it kills the attack (that’s midfield by the way hurting us)
Sons got a weak first touch for a player of his calibre. It’s why as a winger he needs to run at the ball. Same as Johnson
He didn’t get those passes so went backwards a lot … a worrying amount back to destiny or maddsion
He either is fully involved or not at all. There is no half way with sonny

 

[metalgear]

i was under the impression that the influence of on field captains have been on the wane for a long time and its no longer a necessity.

coaches - head and assistants - on the sidelines are more involved with their ocd level tactical machinations which define modern football.

what son (or vardy) does is just a bonus, the players all have their own minds these days.

 

[braineclipse]

Thought he did well in the first half when he had Udogie bombing forward, sometimes also making overlapping runs and with Maddison doing a lot of good work on that side.

Son needs that to thrive in that role. When that faded Son faded too.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

i was under the impression that the influence of on field captains have been on the wane for a long time and its no longer a necessity.

coaches - head and assistants - on the sidelines are more involved with their ocd level tactical machinations which define modern football.

what son (or vardy) does is just a bonus, the players all have their own minds these days.

The issue post conceding isn’t tactical. It’s mental reactionary issues
The players recede into a shell on the pitch and play like aliens

 

[DubSpur]

i was under the impression that the influence of on field captains have been on the wane for a long time and its no longer a necessity.

coaches - head and assistants - on the sidelines are more involved with their ocd level tactical machinations which define modern football.

what son (or vardy) does is just a bonus, the players all have their own minds these days.

The issue is they lose their minds. The captains job in that situation isn't about tactics etc, it's about the mental side and getting the players focused again. It might be as simple as getting a player to go down injured, giving a min for everyone to get together, calm them down, and clear their heads.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate
Watch it back
They didn’t double up on son
He just dissapered once Maddison stopped passing to him
It’s a huge issue how often we go left with some impetus but right so fudging slowly that it kills the attack (that’s midfield by the way hurting us)
Sons got a weak first touch for a player of his calibre. It’s why as a winger he needs to run at the ball. Same as Johnson
He didn’t get those passes so went backwards a lot … a worrying amount back to destiny or maddsion
He either is fully involved or not at all. There is no half way with sonny

I thought Son was our weakest player overall on Monday night. Johnson had a poor game but still had the moment where he chested it down and hit a good volley and also the shot/cross across goal from Maddison's free kick that Son really should've been keeping up with for a tap in instead of being 3 yards behind Johnson (I think had that been the other way round then Johnson would've been at the far post for the chance to convert that into a goal.

Son had the luxury of having both a lot of space and also a lot of balls passed to him quite quickly but didn't make anything of those promising situations. I can't help but think that our tactics of having Udogie coming inside nullifies Son a bit as ideally he'd like to cut in and hit a shot with his right foot but it gets too congested in there for that to happen.