'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich

[thfcsteff]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Thing is Scara, hating religion in itself becomes a radical act.

The majority of people who have religious beliefs do not interfere with others in any way whatsoever.

Radicalism of ANY description is terrible, but we have to be very very careful before tarring people with the same brush just because of how something appears.

I am absolutely not religious myself, and have my own feelings on what religion does to/for mankind, but surely as long as one's faith is not interfering with others, then fantastic! What's the problem? For many, it offers them some sort of strength that they otherwise cannot find. Me? I choose to live in the moment as much as possible, am at peace with the fact that death is 'it' and take great philosophical pleasure in watching my dog at the beach (chases birds, never gets them doesn't give a fudge because it' all about the joy and journey of trying, that sort of thing) and I am also at peace with my lack of control over many situations. You will never release people from 'their religious chains' mate. Some will always follow. Frankly I'd advise letting it go and not worrying too much about it. Of course, when we see acts like this coupled with some of the most vile media coverage I've seen, it's easy to direct anger at an entire faith. But when the dust settles, everyone will realize that these two arses had little to do with islam beyond claiming an interest that they never deeply understood and ended up utilizing to fulfil some other deeper, darker and more sociopathic, violent, evil 'need'...

 

[Roy1983]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Scara wtf are you on about with this one? I take it your an atheist? I'm a Christian. Not a practicing one (There aren't a great deal who can say they are) but does that mean that I'm throwing away my life? It's a ridiculous thing to come out with. I believe in GHod absolutely. Is that wrong?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Thing is Scara, hating religion in itself becomes a radical act.

I agree - I'd probably be kicked out based on the rules I suggested above. I've been on the verge of someone who could be described as a militant atheist a number of times.

The majority of people who have religious beliefs do not interfere with others in any way whatsoever.

I disagree there. Simply continuing the disease (I appreciate others may not see it as one) of religion makes it more acceptable and easy for others to fall into the trap.

Much like someone not immunising their kids based on scare stories from the Daily Mail risks the well being of others.

Radicalism of ANY description is terrible, but we have to be very very careful before tarring people with the same brush just because of how something appears.

I am absolutely not religious myself, and have my own feelings on what religion does to/for mankind, but surely as long as one's faith is not interfering with others, then fantastic! What's the problem? For many, it offers them some sort of strength that they otherwise cannot find.

I think I am distinguishing between the two. Whilst radicalism is the "big bad" that doesn't mean I accept something else I think is damaging (albeit in a far less immediate representation).

Me? I choose to live in the moment as much as possible, am at peace with the fact that death is 'it' and take great philosophical pleasure in watching my dog at the beach (chases birds, never gets them doesn't give a fudge because it' all about the joy and journey of trying, that sort of thing) and I am also at peace with my lack of control over many situations.

This is a very interesting philosophical point, one that I often ponder myself.

Take my hairdresser. She's a lovely girl - a really genuinely nice person. You'd never make the mistake of describing her as a 'thinker' though. She breezes through life with little or no knowledge of politics, far flung wars, the looming millstone if baby boomer pensions, all the things that worry most of us on a daily basis. But she's incredibly happy without that knowledge.

Is it better not to have that knowledge and be happy? Or is it better to know, compartmentalise and deal with it? Or do the things that I consider trivial take on more of an importance? Is there a 'worry level' that we'll all meet one way or another?

This has obviously been discussed for years, but in recent times people have been calling it the "Matrix problem" I believe.

You will never release people from 'their religious chains' mate. Some will always follow. Frankly I'd advise letting it go and not worrying too much about it. Of course, when we see acts like this coupled with some of the most vile media coverage I've seen, it's easy to direct anger at an entire faith. But when the dust settles, everyone will realize that these two arses had little to do with islam beyond claiming an interest that they never deeply understood and ended up utilizing to fulfil some other deeper, darker and more sociopathic, violent, evil 'need'...

Whilst I realise that I will never convert someone who is already religious, I hope that ridicule will prevent the next generation from falling into that trap.

If the two options are religion and acceptance, religion is reasonably likely. If the two options are religion and ridicule hopefully religion is less likely without properly explored, logical thought.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Scara wtf are you on about with this one? I take it your an atheist? I'm a Christian. Not a practicing one (There aren't a great deal who can say they are) but does that mean that I'm throwing away my life? It's a ridiculous thing to come out with. I believe in GHod absolutely. Is that wrong?

That's for you to decide. To choose GHod without properly considering the alternatives is wrong in my eyes.

The throwing away of one's life comment was more about those who live their lives by a restrictive code in order to conform for the next - I don't get the impression from your posts that you do that.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I agree - I'd probably be kicked out based on the rules I suggested above. I've been on the verge of someone who could be described as a militant atheist a number of times.



I disagree there. Simply continuing the disease (I appreciate others may not see it as one) of religion makes it more acceptable and easy for others to fall into the trap.

Much like someone not immunising their kids based on scare stories from the Daily Mail risks the well being of others.



I think I am distinguishing between the two. Whilst radicalism is the "big bad" that doesn't mean I accept something else I think is damaging (albeit in a far less immediate representation).



This is a very interesting philosophical point, one that I often ponder myself.

Take my hairdresser. She's a lovely girl - a really genuinely nice person. You'd never make the mistake of describing her as a 'thinker' though. She breezes through life with little or no knowledge of politics, far flung wars, the looming millstone if baby boomer pensions, all the things that worry most of us on a daily basis. But she's incredibly happy without that knowledge.

Is it better not to have that knowledge and be happy? Or is it better to know, compartmentalise and deal with it? Or do the things that I consider trivial take on more of an importance? Is there a 'worry level' that we'll all meet one way or another?

This has obviously been discussed for years, but in recent times people have been calling it the "Matrix problem" I believe.



Whilst I realise that I will never convert someone who is already religious, I hope that ridicule will prevent the next generation from falling into that trap.

If the two options are religion and acceptance, religion is reasonably likely. If the two options are religion and ridicule hopefully religion is less likely without properly explored, logical thought.

Don't get me wrong mate, I'm sure you can tell I tend to read about a lot of matters, and mull them over too. But there came a time for me when I felt I needed to investigate living the moment more and spending less energy on what has been and what might be.

I think it's good to know but equally good to fathom the extent of what we can really control. It's a continual work in progress. But imagine if we each applied a solid 80% of our energy solely to things we can personally control? It'd be phenomenal. What is worth pondering is where those who follow religions would place their faith if there wasn't any religion? Be careful what we wish for...really good conversation BTW...

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Interesting debate on LBC this morning with Nick Ferrari. Some guy called Jordan from Walthamstow called supporting the horrific incident. Very inflammatory.

 

[Roy1983]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

That's for you to decide. To choose GHod without properly considering the alternatives is wrong in my eyes.

The throwing away of one's life comment was more about those who live their lives by a restrictive code in order to conform for the next - I don't get the impression from your posts that you do that.

I don't of course not. We're you brought up a Christian or attend a Christian school? I did so its taught to you from an early age.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I don't of course not. We're you brought up a Christian or attend a Christian school? I did so its taught to you from an early age.

I was, yes. I sang hymns at assembly every morning, I prayed when required, I even attended Sunday School.

At around 13-14 I discovered an interest in science and philosophy and quickly decided it was all nonsense.

 

[Crawley]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Roy, I think you are confusing "Christianity" with good old "Church of England" here.

 

[Roy1983]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I was, yes. I sang hymns at assembly every morning, I prayed when required, I even attended Sunday School.

At around 13-14 I discovered an interest in science and philosophy and quickly decided it was all nonsense.

Oh you believe the Charles Darwin theory opposed to the bible? Lol your choice that's all I'm saying.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I was, yes. I sang hymns at assembly every morning, I prayed when required, I even attended Sunday School.

At around 13-14 I discovered an interest in science and philosophy and quickly decided it was all nonsense.

It is the lack of critical, and thus philosophical, thinking in schools today which I feel is contributing to society's ills...people are not being taught to think from an early age; it's increasingly about serving.

 

[Roy1983]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Roy, I think you are confusing "Christianity" with good old "Church of England" here.

C of E = Christianity but I take your point.

 

[Crawley]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

It is the lack of critical, and thus philosophical, thinking in schools today which I feel is contributing to society's ills...people are not being taught to think from an early age; it's increasingly about serving.

Ah! Something we agree on!!!!!

I was the same as Scara............CofE from birth, sunday school etc, then rejected it all. Can't quite remember what kicked that rejection off........possibly my interest in UFOs and possible Alien life i think. I believe I read "Chariots of the Gods by Von Danekin(sp).
And then I got into punk, especially the anarchic group Crass...............and I've never believed since.

My two boys........neither baptised. I will leave it to them, but I suspect they will never be tempted. Hope not, but their choice.

 

[Richie]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Thing is Scara, hating religion in itself becomes a radical act.

This is so true. I'm not religious myself, but I am neither for or against it. As with everything in this world, religion does a lot of good and a lot of bad. I know a number of people who are take an almost fundamentalist non-religious stance and it smacks of hypocrisy IMO

 

[THFC]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Your definition of ignorance is obviously rather different to mine. I would've said 'ignorant' was to immediately assume, as many have, that this man was a muslim based on some words he shouted. Minutes after it happened it was being called a 'terrorist' act...in fact, seing as you cannot find it in yourself to muster an apology (understandable if you honestly believe what you wrote) let me refer you to the the boldface part of your post above and return the compliment. Your ignorance in this matter will only allow the details to be swept under a carpet whilst the swirling hoardes pick over it and appropriate these tragic actions for their own agendas. You appear to have a pre-determined mindset about what this is. I would certainly call that both narrow-minded and ignorant. Each to their own. The only thing we can apparently agree on is that this was a disgusting crime.

Ok well this will be my last post on the matter, by the way you have bolded the very last line of my post to draw your conclusion, whereas in the opening line it states what you yourself have termed as ignorance.

If you were offended it was not my intention. But to
Dismiss the murder out of hand as non religious and instead assume he was a drugged up gangster? After watching that video? That is why I said it.

To claim non religious intention here given what was said would cause outrage up and down the country further, hence the media claiming terrorist intentions.

 

[THFC]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Your definition of ignorance is obviously rather different to mine. I would've said 'ignorant' was to immediately assume, as many have, that this man was a muslim based on some words he shouted. Minutes after it happened it was being called a 'terrorist' act...in fact, seing as you cannot find it in yourself to muster an apology (understandable if you honestly believe what you wrote) let me refer you to the the boldface part of your post above and return the compliment. Your ignorance in this matter will only allow the details to be swept under a carpet whilst the swirling hoardes pick over it and appropriate these tragic actions for their own agendas. You appear to have a pre-determined mindset about what this is. I would certainly call that both narrow-minded and ignorant. Each to their own. The only thing we can apparently agree on is that this was a disgusting crime.

Ok well this will be my last post on the matter, by the way you have bolded the very last line of my post to draw your conclusion, whereas in the opening line it states what you yourself have termed as ignorance.

If you were offended it was not my intention. But to
Dismiss the murder out of hand as non religious and instead assume he was a drugged up gangster? After watching that video? That is why I said it.

To claim non religious intention here given what was said would cause outrage up and down the country further, hence the media claiming terrorist intentions.

 

[Parklaner81]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

My point is that incidents like this which involve twisted sickos shouldn't push you into harbouring racist thoughts or justifying racism. If it does then you've probably had those thoughts for a long time.

Would this include concerns over mass immigration, and the rise of this kind of 'militant Islamism' in this country? Would you classify those as racist thoughts?

 

[spitshine]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I thought this would raise its ugly head again.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22652051

Big brother society....

 

[THFC]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

The thing is to discuss these issues is claimed to be racist by many. That is why tensions rise.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

The thing is to discuss these issues is claimed to be racist by many. That is why tensions rise.

Have you had any thoughts as to why you think my thoughts instigate radicalism and how my posts have tarred every single Western man with the same brush?