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'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Crawley said:
This was a hate crime.

Hate of what?...........well, not necessarily white people, more the western governments and those considered to be their pawns.

I think some on here are desperate to simply blame lunacy, so as not to stir the racial side of it. But what these guys did was vile and aimed to shock.


I feel had it been a white person attacking a non-white, or even any person committing a homophobic crime, the uproar may well have been greater on here, and more of you would be saying hate crime rather than act of lunacy.
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i refuse to see the video but have had to read bits and bobs in the papers, with much disgust in my belly.

but why are you calling it a racial killing. did they say they hated white people or something? or that the white man is evil or beneath them?

i am genuinely curious as i thought this was more anti-western driven more than anything. I think this is a hate crime, but i dont see how its a racially motivated hate crime. or at least i havent read it yet...as i dont really want to
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Crawley said:
No, I feel he was angry at those who would do us harm. Which in this (and other) instance are radical Islamists within our own country.

If it was a bunch of Frenchmen acting the same way, and preaching death to our people, I'm sure the reaction would be the same. (Only we wouldn't be as scared of the French ;) )
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most probably, but your saying that words shows the bases or root cause of something. same like me...those people at this moment in time spouting off religious and anti-western hate stuff points towards a hate crime.

why then excuse what johnola (sorry if i spelt it wrong) said as simply an emotional thing? why not take that at face value as well?

personally i dont think he is, he doesnt come across as a hater to me.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

AuroRaman said:
Have you had any thoughts as to why you think my thoughts instigate radicalism and how my posts have tarred every single Western man with the same brush?
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My comment wss aimed at those waving hands and saying 'oh no every muslim will now be branded a terrorist'. And those who feel it is justified to retaliate against those who may not even agree with our foreign policy.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
My comment wss aimed at those waving hands and saying 'oh no every muslim will now be branded a terrorist'. And those who feel it is justified to retaliate against those who may not even agree with our foreign policy.
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Ok fair enough. Thank you for replying.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I always appreciate the honesty that comes out in threads like this. It shows you who you are really talking to beyond the usual spurs talk
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

The Quran is a book that can be read by anyone.

If you want to speak with knowledge on the subject it is important to understand the truth of what is contained in that book, and who Muslims believe authored it.

[video=youtube;_hiZ1_SxXNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hiZ1_SxXNQ[/video]

It may make it more palatable to believe that this person's actions are those of a crazed individual, but the disturbing truth is that he is no such thing. He strikes me as someone intelligent and fully in control of his actions. And his actions do have a basis in Islam, and it was, to Islamic belief, a divinely ordained killing.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Crawley said:
Er, you do realise it's possible to be an English jew, right?

And as such, there is every conceiveable chance you could be anti-muslim?
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I wanna see how many of them waving the Israel flag are actually Jewish

EDIT: As an English Jew myself, yes I was aware.

I don't fully understand the second line, but I'll assume you're saying that Jews are more likely to be anti-Muslim than other religions. I have to say this may be true in the older generations, but in our generation we won't disrespect somebody just because they're different to us. As Jews we know that the most out of everyone.
 
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Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Bonsaiboy said:
The Quran is a book that can be read by anyone.

If you want to speak with knowledge on the subject it is important to understand the truth of what is contained in that book, and who Muslims believe authored it.

[video=youtube;_hiZ1_SxXNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hiZ1_SxXNQ[/video]

It may make it more palatable to believe that this person's actions are those of a crazed individual, but the disturbing truth is that he is no such thing. He strikes me as someone intelligent and fully in control of his actions. And his actions do have a basis in Islam, and it was, to Islamic belief, a divinely ordained killing.
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educate us please, tell me why you think this is the case. so many of my islamic friends have condemned this, how is it you have come to the conclusion otherwise
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Crawley said:
Ah! Something we agree on!!!!!

I was the same as Scara............CofE from birth, sunday school etc, then rejected it all. Can't quite remember what kicked that rejection off........possibly my interest in UFOs and possible Alien life i think. I believe I read "Chariots of the Gods by Von Danekin(sp).
And then I got into punk, especially the anarchic group Crass...............and I've never believed since.

My two boys........neither baptised. I will leave it to them, but I suspect they will never be tempted. Hope not, but their choice.
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I'd say we agree on more than we disagree on TBF matey...difference for me on this specific point is that my Mum went through Irish catholisism and hated it so much that I was kept far, far away from it's clutches, thus probably easier for me to have a 'live and let live' attitude...

As for Crass...yes!!! And Conflict.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

just fudging seen that thread

i can safely say that stinkfoot made me LOL

there are some funny comments in there . fudging hell
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
Ok well this will be my last post on the matter, by the way you have bolded the very last line of my post to draw your conclusion, whereas in the opening line it states what you yourself have termed as ignorance.

If you were offended it was not my intention. But to
Dismiss the murder out of hand as non religious and instead assume he was a drugged up gangster? After watching that video? That is why I said it.

To claim non religious intention here given what was said would cause outrage up and down the country further, hence the media claiming terrorist intentions.
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You posted this twice! :lol:

Anyway, I think as we see the picture of this murderer unfold, the truth lies firmly in the middle of what's been said. he was absolutely playing 'gangsta' and he was (as I have already admitted and apologized earlier for denying) someone who took an interest in radical muslim behaviour. I would hope that you would be open to judging the situation on a lot more than 70 seconds of video footage shot right after this heinous attack. I 100% stand by my assertion that this man, and his actions, absolutely do not represent muslims in any way. Radicals? That's a different discussion. And even there, I'd say that this guy was confused by life as he seemed to be 'seeking' some outlet for his increasing anger at the world...
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

THFC said:
The thing is to discuss these issues is claimed to be racist by many. That is why tensions rise.
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What issues?
What are you talking about now?
I thought you'd made your last two posts on the subject!
I'm all ears...
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

thfcsteff said:
You posted this twice! :lol:

Anyway, I think as we see the picture of this murderer unfold, the truth lies firmly in the middle of what's been said. he was absolutely playing 'gangsta' and he was (as I have already admitted and apologized earlier for denying) someone who took an interest in radical muslim behaviour. I would hope that you would be open to judging the situation on a lot more than 70 seconds of video footage shot right after this heinous attack. I 100% stand by my assertion that this man, and his actions, absolutely do not represent muslims in any way. Radicals? That's a different discussion. And even there, I'd say that this guy was confused by life as he seemed to be 'seeking' some outlet for his increasing anger at the world...
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Its funny how one murder can cause so much uproar... but these killings happen EVERYWHERE. Every week there is a church being bomed in Egypt by who? muslims. Everyday there is a killing of someone, some group or a whole fudgein church.

Im not a big fan of muslim people, not racist, just bad experiences from Egypt. Thats not to say ALL muslims are bad and fundamentalists and I have one or two Islamic friends (but theyre the new age not the fundamentalists). I dont neccessarily think its the religion that is the issue (as much as I dislike the Qu'ran) its the people that cant see through the outdated message the religion relays.

I am Christian was brought up as one but have distanced myself away from religion but believe there is a GHod etc. Anyways my point is is that Religion needs to change with the times. If we took everything the Bible or the Qu'ran says in a literal manner - we would all be killing people.

So Steff whilst you say that this man does not represent muslims in ANY way? I beg to differ. Granted this guy does not represent ALL muslims but he represented FAR FAR more than you seem to think.

I may be digressing as I still dont have a fudgein clue why this guy killed that man and it may not have been a religious racist attack but if it was because he read the Qu'ran and found the divine killing passage - then he is definitely representative of a lot more muslims than you think.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

DHSF said:
Its funny how one murder can cause so much uproar... but these killings happen EVERYWHERE. Every week there is a church being bomed in Egypt by who? muslims. Everyday there is a killing of someone, some group or a whole fudgein church.

Im not a big fan of muslim people, not racist, just bad experiences from Egypt. Thats not to say ALL muslims are bad and fundamentalists and I have one or two Islamic friends (but theyre the new age not the fundamentalists). I dont neccessarily think its the religion that is the issue (as much as I dislike the Qu'ran) its the people that cant see through the outdated message the religion relays.

I am Christian was brought up as one but have distanced myself away from religion but believe there is a GHod etc. Anyways my point is is that Religion needs to change with the times. If we took everything the Bible or the Qu'ran says in a literal manner - we would all be killing people.

So Steff whilst you say that this man does not represent muslims in ANY way? I beg to differ. Granted this guy does not represent ALL muslims but he represented FAR FAR more than you seem to think.

I may be digressing as I still dont have a fudgein clue why this guy killed that man and it may not have been a religious racist attack but if it was because he read the Qu'ran and found the divine killing passage - then he is definitely representative of a lot more muslims than you think.
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can you tell me the 'divine killings passage' as you called it and then explain how ambushing a guy on the street in a car as he is minding his own walking home or where ever he was going constitutes 'divine' killing? how did the attackers know who he was , what he had done or where he was coming from?

i dont get where people are saying what that guy did is part of muslim thinking.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

and christians kill muslims as well. its not just the other way around....you just dont hear about it nearly as much....
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

there's not really any argument to be made that they weren't Muslims after what has come about them in the days after the incident Im afraid, reading the Standard today for example it's quite clear these two guys have been radicalized at some point in the past decade or so - both converted to the religion in their mid to late teens and both attended mosques, extremist rallies and the like.

unless of course you want to don a tin foil hat :lol:
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Bonsaiboy said:
The Quran is a book that can be read by anyone.

If you want to speak with knowledge on the subject it is important to understand the truth of what is contained in that book, and who Muslims believe authored it.

[video=youtube;_hiZ1_SxXNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hiZ1_SxXNQ[/video]

It may make it more palatable to believe that this person's actions are those of a crazed individual, but the disturbing truth is that he is no such thing. He strikes me as someone intelligent and fully in control of his actions. And his actions do have a basis in Islam, and it was, to Islamic belief, a divinely ordained killing.
Click to expand...

There's many different variants of the Quran and there's so many different interpretations and translations of the text.
 
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Modric THFC said:
There's many different variants of the Quran and there's so many different interpretations and translations of the text.
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there is? there are?

what the heck is going on here? The Quran , as far as i have been told by many, has NEVER been changed
 
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