Sandro - Beast

[Modric THFC]

I don't think publicly stating Sandro is not good enough for the squad will motivate Sandro. Or at least it might but that won't help. The issue is that I don't think Sandro is the type of player Sherwood wants in his midfield. No amount of public criticism is going to change the type of player Sandro is. He is a very good defensive midfielder, with limited attacking capabilities. He is not suddenly going to become an all-rounder through being motivated.

So if that was part of Sherwood's thinking, it is flawed - although I don't it was. I think Sherwood was just being unprofessionally and foolishly blunt.

My view of Sherwood thinking is that he felt there is no need to rush an injury prone player like Sandro back when he's not that needed.
Sandro knows he needs games to get any chance of the World Cup squad so he threw his toys out of the pram on twitter.

 

[Modric THFC]

hmph [-( , well if thats all you think he does no wonder you dont see how valuable he is

Yeah he covers ground and closes down.
But Fulham were giving us the ball back constantly so he's not needed.
We weren't playing a possession side.

 

[Jordinho]

Thats exactly my point about Sandro. He's only needed when we need to shore things up.
We dont need him to play at home against most teams.

Whereas most people here think the team is gonna fall apart without him putting in his 2 tackles and 3 interceptions per game.

The best players don't have to resort to tackling that often.

 

[thfcsteff]

My view of Sherwood thinking is that he felt there is no need to rush an injury prone player like Sandro back when he's not that needed.
Sandro knows he needs games to get any chance of the World Cup squad so he threw his toys out of the pram on twitter.

No no mate, that was a made-up quote that I suggested Sherwood should've aired in public had he felt the need to say anything when asked!!!! Instead he rinsed out a top player in our squad and a top player in our side. He's a fool!

 

[thfcsteff]

Unfortunately this is the case with so much of what Timmeh does/says.

There are ways of saying what he said that don't make the player look small, the club look stupid and the manager look like a ****. When this happens, everyone shrugs their shoulders and carries on without even noticing what happened.

There's no factual difference between what you said and what Timmeh did, it's just that Timmeh said it in a way that makes him seem like Mr. Big ******** - something he seems incredibly keen to continue doing.

Indeed. Using Sandro for his own agenda…which IMO is to get to Norwich ASAP with a pocket full of wonga from us.

 

[harr1984]

Indeed. Using Sandro for his own agenda…which IMO is to get to Norwich ASAP with a pocket full of wonga from us.

I really do think you and some others read too much into certain things, these theories are getting pretty far fetched. He said that about Sandro to look like Mr big shot and get the Norwich job?!

 

[braineclipse]

I really do think you and some others read too much into certain things, these theories are getting pretty far fetched. He said that about Sandro to look like Mr big shot and get the Norwich job?!

Obviously not the Norwich job specifically.

I do think Sherwood knows he's gone and I think he's trying to make the rest of the season about himself and not about the team to maximize his exposure to ensure that he gets the best possible job for himself next time around.

Can't blame him really.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Obviously not the Norwich job specifically.

I do think Sherwood knows he's gone and I think he's trying to make the rest of the season about himself and not about the team to maximize his exposure to ensure that he gets the best possible job for himself next time around.

Can't blame him really.

For a coach who thinks only about himself, he seems to be doing a damn good job of getting the team to win games!! I don't buy these conspiracy theories. My take is that Sherwood is just himself, opinionated and immensely self assured. Let me put this to you... if it were Fergie and one of his players tweeted what Sandro did, would he cover it up publicly? Like hell he would!

Do I think Sherwood is the man to lead us next season? Absolutely not! Why? Because i think FDB, LVG and even Laudrup are better choices because all three have the experience. Would I like to see Sherwood as assistant to a LVG - very much so. League tables are no fluke. He definitely has positive qualities that I think will make him into a successful manager; pity is that he is too arrogant to accept a apprenticeship.

 

[braineclipse]

For a coach who thinks only about himself, he seems to be doing a damn good job of getting the team to win games!! I don't buy these conspiracy theories. My take is that Sherwood is just himself, opinionated and immensely self assured. Let me put this to you... if it were Fergie and one of his players tweeted what Sandro did, would he cover it up publicly? Like hell he would!

Do I think Sherwood is the man to lead us next season? Absolutely not! Why? Because i think FDB, LVG and even Laudrup are better choices because all three have the experience. Would I like to see Sherwood as assistant to a LVG - very much so. League tables are no fluke. He definitely has positive qualities that I think will make him into a successful manager; pity is that he is too arrogant to accept a apprenticeship.

What do you think Sherwood cares more about? Tottenham next season or where he himself will be next season? Would be pretty exceptional to expect the former I think, and I haven't really seen or heard anything from Sherwood to indicate that.

Obviously part of making him look good is making the team play well, not saying he doesn't care about that - of course not! But perhaps it's more important for him to keep showing that he can use young players, and to show that he's a creative tactician than to give players like Chiriches valuable playing time to help him prepare for next season and to let Sandro return to action with the (perhaps feeble) hope that he's still in with a shout to get a call for the World Cup and to keep him happy seeing as he's one of our most important players when he's fit.

 

[harr1984]

Obviously not the Norwich job specifically.

I do think Sherwood knows he's gone and I think he's trying to make the rest of the season about himself and not about the team to maximize his exposure to ensure that he gets the best possible job for himself next time around.

Can't blame him really.

Maybe he does know he's gone, who knows...I dont and neither does anyone else on here. But I think this buzzword of Tim's 'agenda' is ironic as it seems many on here have some sort of agenda to take literally anything the guy says and interpret to be Sherwood working his own PR machine. He gets asks a question, he answers it honestly - big deal. So much nonsense has been spouted about him on these pages its crazy.

I hope whoever the new coach is realises he's not allowed to be honest about what his thoughts are and only allowed to reel off the usual boring manager talk otherwise he will get accused of having an agenda too>

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Obviously part of making him look good is making the team play well, not saying he doesn't care about that - of course not! But perhaps it's more important for him to keep showing that he can use young players, and to show that he's a creative tactician than to give players like Chiriches valuable playing time to help him prepare for next season and to let Sandro return to action with the (perhaps feeble) hope that he's still in with a shout to get a call for the World Cup and to keep him happy seeing as he's one of our most important players when he's fit.

That is illogical!! Why should he "give players like Chiriches valuable playing time to help him prepare for next season". His brief and responsibility is one and one alone.... to win matches. If he thinks Chiriches in the team will compromise that (and after West Brom I don't blame him) he has every right not to pick him. Same goes for Sandro

You may disagree with his choices and his tactics to win the game he is supposed to but you cannot take a rod to his back for the ridiculous logic above

 

[braineclipse]

Maybe he does know he's gone, who knows...I dont and neither does anyone else on here. But I think this buzzword of Tim's 'agenda' is ironic as it seems many on here have some sort of agenda to take literally anything the guy says and interpret to be Sherwood working his own PR machine. He gets asks a question, he answers it honestly - big deal. So much nonsense has been spouted about him on these pages its crazy.

I hope whoever the new coach is realises he's not allowed to be honest about what his thoughts are and only allowed to reel off the usual boring manager talk otherwise he will get accused of having an agenda too>

I only talk for myself. As far as I know I don't have an agenda, if you think I do feel free to point it out to me.

I did say "I do think Sherwood knows he's gone" - there's plenty of reasoning behind that thinking, but I don't think I have to go into it.

When Sherwood took over he knew the only thing that could save him was results. He did his best and I defended much of what he did. Now though, the season is effectively over, and if (since we can't know) he knows he's done I think it's only natural that he's primarily concerned with himself. I don't think that's a conspiracy. It's human nature.

Managers get away with just about anything as long as the results are good enough, I'm guessing if we get a new manager and its LvG he'll know that. And I really don't think he'll be boring.

 

[braineclipse]

That is illogical!! Why should he "give players like Chiriches valuable playing time to help him prepare for next season". His brief and responsibility is one and one alone.... to win matches. If he thinks Chiriches in the team will compromise that (and after West Brom I don't blame him) he has every right not to pick him. Same goes for Sandro

You may disagree with his choices and his tactics to win the game he is supposed to but you cannot take a rod to his back for the ridiculous logic above

So he picked Harry Winks ahead of Sandro on the bench because his brief and responsibility is one and one alone to win matches?

Really?

Seems to me the logical conclusion of what you're saying, but feel free to correct my logic where you see it flawed here...

 

[harr1984]

I only talk for myself. As far as I know I don't have an agenda, if you think I do feel free to point it out to me.

I did say "I do think Sherwood knows he's gone" - there's plenty of reasoning behind that thinking, but I don't think I have to go into it.

When Sherwood took over he knew the only thing that could save him was results. He did his best and I defended much of what he did. Now though, the season is effectively over, and if (since we can't know) he knows he's done I think it's only natural that he's primarily concerned with himself. I don't think that's a conspiracy. It's human nature.

Managers get away with just about anything as long as the results are good enough, I'm guessing if we get a new manager and its LvG he'll know that. And I really don't think he'll be boring.

No wasnt directing at you, just from what Ive read from a few on here. Yes it is natural for you to look after yourself, which makes me question why it seems to be something some want to criticise him with like anyone on here would be different. But I dont see how what he has said in certain instances has to do with him looking after himself anyway like this instance with Sandro. Tim doesnt think that Sandro is needed at the moment,simple - like it or lump it and a few seem to be reaching purely because they dont like the guy. If Tim is indeed intent on just looking after himself he will know the best way to get a decent job is to be as successful as possible here and win as many games as possible which he's making a decent go of....

 

[braineclipse]

No wasnt directing at you, just from what Ive read from a few on here. Yes it is natural for you to look after yourself, which makes me question why it seems to be something some want to criticise him with like anyone on here would be different. But I dont see how what he has said in certain instances has to do with him looking after himself anyway like this instance with Sandro. Tim doesnt think that Sandro is needed at the moment,simple - like it or lump it and a few seem to be reaching purely because they dont like the guy. If Tim is indeed intent on just looking after himself he will know the best way to get a decent job is to be as successful as possible here and win as many games as possible which he's making a decent go of....

Why I said "can't blame him really".

I don't think a win or two makes much of a difference tbh. If it did he would have included Sandro instead of Winks I think, for now at least as I wait for Maltese to tell my why my logic is flawed.

But the opportunity to possibly give another youngster the chance if we're comfortable come the end of the game and become the manager than introduced Bentaleb, Kane, Velljkovic, Fryers and Winks (count them, 5!) into the team will sound better than him just re-introducing Sandro into the team after injury.

 

[africanspurs]

Yeah he covers ground and closes down.
But Fulham were giving us the ball back constantly so he's not needed.
We weren't playing a possession side.

so why have a holding mid at all against non possession sides? i'm talking about other big teams btw

 

[braineclipse]

so why have a holding mid at all against non possession sides? i'm talking about other big teams btw

I disagree with Modric THFC.

Teams that come to defend also come to counter attack. Having a deep midfielder that's very good at breaking up counter attacks, that's good at "offensive marking", reading play, discipline, positioning etc is super valuable when dominating games.

Remember the Sessegnon goal against West Brom. I think we would have been much less likely to concede that had Sandro been on the pitch instead of Paulinho or Chadli as Sandro is an actual defensive midfielder. And if a centre back stepped up to join our midfield I think he would have been much more likely to get his positioning right and help out and stop that counter attack. We've been counter attacked to death by average looking sides a bit too often to think that a defensive midfielder against smaller teams isn't necessary for me at least. It's too easy to blame Chiriches (like Sherwood seemingly did).

That being said Sandro is limited in his play in the other important part of the game for a holding player in a game like that, quick and effective distribution when on the ball.

 

[thfcsteff]

I really do think you and some others read too much into certain things, these theories are getting pretty far fetched. He said that about Sandro to look like Mr big shot and get the Norwich job?!

Ah well, let me give you a bigger 'too far' picture. To get the tin-tack and make sure he gets a pocket of wedge?
His 'opinions' have increased in verbocity over the last two to three weeks.
He has done his best to separate himself from the issues this past month or so.
I think you underestimate the way in which these 'characters' work.

The only way I could possibly agree with you is if I were convinced that he made the comments about Sandro because he's simply hot-headed and extremely thick. But he isn't. He's smart enough to cover his own back and then some. Like his mentor.

 

[scaramanga]

That being said Sandro is limited in his play in the other important part of the game for a holding player in a game like that, quick and effective distribution when on the ball.

Most players that are effective in the holding role are a little lacking when it comes to distribution - those that are good at both don't tend to stay at clubs like us for long.

I'd say that of those outside of the "good at both" bracket, Sandro's passing is pretty good.

The fact that only the top teams tend to have players good at both is also one of the main thrusts behind teams playing 4-2-3-1. Having a passer next to a holder makes the midfield far more creative without losing solidity. Something that seems to have been entirely missed by Timmeh in his desperation to not be AVB.

 

[harr1984]

Why I said "can't blame him really".

I don't think a win or two makes much of a difference tbh. If it did he would have included Sandro instead of Winks I think, for now at least as I wait for Maltese to tell my why my logic is flawed.

But the opportunity to possibly give another youngster the chance if we're comfortable come the end of the game and become the manager than introduced Bentaleb, Kane, Velljkovic, Fryers and Winks (count them, 5!) into the team will sound better than him just re-introducing Sandro into the team after injury.

That's a fair point. On this forum we've always mentioned that would be good to blood the youngsters when we have the opportunity and I don't see a better one than now to rnable some to gain actual league experience so whether its for his own gain or not it seems to be benefiting the club in some way.....