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Sandro - Beast

harr1984 said:
No wasnt directing at you, just from what Ive read from a few on here. Yes it is natural for you to look after yourself, which makes me question why it seems to be something some want to criticise him with like anyone on here would be different. But I dont see how what he has said in certain instances has to do with him looking after himself anyway like this instance with Sandro. Tim doesnt think that Sandro is needed at the moment,simple - like it or lump it and a few seem to be reaching purely because they dont like the guy. If Tim is indeed intent on just looking after himself he will know the best way to get a decent job is to be as successful as possible here and win as many games as possible which he's making a decent go of....
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(Sigh)…no, that is not the case. I will try to explain myself clearly on this specific point one more time, after which I think it would be best if we just agreeably agree to disagree (if you know what I mean! ;))…

In my opinion, the manager of a football club should not rinse a player in public regardless of perceived provocation. Sandro was being cheeky to say that, in fact a cynic might say he was throwing raw steak to a dog, but Sherwood has absolutely no reason to respond. If asked a question, he can easily deflect the issue. Instead, he chose to take it head-on. He didn't even stop at merely agreeing he wasn't injured. He went on to say he doesn't think he's good enough for his side right now. It is unnecessary and classless in my most humble opinion. Again, I have much to say on him, but this is simply to try and make clear why I believe he was 100% wrong to comment on Sandro. The top managers don't. Ever.
 
braineclipse said:
I disagree with Modric THFC.

Teams that come to defend also come to counter attack. Having a deep midfielder that's very good at breaking up counter attacks, that's good at "offensive marking", reading play, discipline, positioning etc is super valuable when dominating games.

Remember the Sessegnon goal against West Brom. I think we would have been much less likely to concede that had Sandro been on the pitch instead of Paulinho or Chadli as Sandro is an actual defensive midfielder. And if a centre back stepped up to join our midfield I think he would have been much more likely to get his positioning right and help out and stop that counter attack. We've been counter attacked to death by average looking sides a bit too often to think that a defensive midfielder against smaller teams isn't necessary for me at least. It's too easy to blame Chiriches (like Sherwood seemingly did).

That being said Sandro is limited in his play in the other important part of the game for a holding player in a game like that, quick and effective distribution when on the ball.
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On the money.
Neither of those players is going to track back. WHy oh why he won't play Sandro and Pauliho together, two players who have played together a few times for a small outfit called Brazil, is beyond my comprehension. Chadli? In the middle ahead of Sandro? he really hasn't done enough to warrant that has he?

Yes, Chiriches was the easy blame that day. Barely back from injury. Like Kaboul (5, games back from a season off) and with Danny Rose at FB and no Walker at RB. I'd say they deserved a bit more protection!
 
scaramanga said:
Most players that are effective in the holding role are a little lacking when it comes to distribution - those that are good at both don't tend to stay at clubs like us for long.

I'd say that of those outside of the "good at both" bracket, Sandro's passing is pretty good.

The fact that only the top teams tend to have players good at both is also one of the main thrusts behind teams playing 4-2-3-1. Having a passer next to a holder makes the midfield far more creative without losing solidity. Something that seems to have been entirely missed by Timmeh in his desperation to not be AVB.
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This is all mostly true. Although I think Sandro's passing is more "not quite good enough" more than "pretty good" for a player in this category.

Yes, I do think that's a part of why 4-2-3-1 works pretty well. Although you also make yourself dependent on your full backs for a lot of that attacking purpose in that case. Attacking purpose and our full backs isn't really often used in a sentence without a light sprinkling of "not at all" in between.

We're also outright short a man for that "passer" to play next to the holder deep in midfield. Bentaleb is seriously our best player in that regard in that position. Seriously! Bentaleb. At 19! I ****ing love the kid, but come on!
 
thfcsteff said:
(Sigh)…no, that is not the case. I will try to explain myself clearly on this specific point one more time, after which I think it would be best if we just agreeably agree to disagree (if you know what I mean! ;))…

In my opinion, the manager of a football club should not rinse a player in public regardless of perceived provocation. Sandro was being cheeky to say that, in fact a cynic might say he was throwing raw steak to a dog, but Sherwood has absolutely no reason to respond. If asked a question, he can easily deflect the issue. Instead, he chose to take it head-on. He didn't even stop at merely agreeing he wasn't injured. He went on to say he doesn't think he's good enough for his side right now. It is unnecessary and classless in my most humble opinion. Again, I have much to say on him, but this is simply to try and make clear why I believe he was 100% wrong to comment on Sandro. The top managers don't. Ever.
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To be honest Ive got no qualms with you not liking the Sandro comment, and your rationale is completely fair enough. It just didn't particularly bother me and I actually appreciated the insight into why he's not involved in the squad. I'm just not sure Sandro would be sitting at home crying about it half as much as some on here have done, so don't understand why its turned into such a big deal. But like you say probably best just to agree to disagree. As for the top managers dont, ever....I'm not sure that's true?! Although admit no examples spring to mind right now, but Im sure a few at the very least have....
 
harr1984 said:
To be honest Ive got no qualms with you not liking the Sandro comment, and your rationale is completely fair enough. It just didn't particularly bother me and I actually appreciated the insight into why he's not involved in the squad. I'm just not sure Sandro would be sitting at home crying about it half as much as some on here have done, so don't understand why its turned into such a big deal. But like you say probably best just to agree to disagree. As for the top managers dont, ever....I'm not sure that's true?! Although admit no examples spring to mind right now, but Im sure a few at the very least have....
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Have to agree that you must be right with regards to the last line too. Law of averages and all…indeed mate, we agree to disagree. Good post.
 
Modric THFC said:
Stirring up **** for his own benefit.

If anyone else did this they'd get so much stick. But no one has even mentioned it yet in his thread.
Like BAE, Sandro can do no wrong because he's a 'character'.
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What's happened here, I've read thru the last few pages but can't seem to see exactly what's been said. Sandro wasn't picked, he tweets he's fit and Sherwood says he doesn't think he's good enough. That's the gist I've got, but I haven't seen any quotes from either.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
What's happened here, I've read thru the last few pages but can't seem to see exactly what's been said. Sandro wasn't picked, he tweets he's fit and Sherwood says he doesn't think he's good enough. That's the gist I've got, but I haven't seen any quotes from either.
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Yep, that is basically it.

[video=youtube;7heR5VmOkVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7heR5VmOkVs[/video]

A few tweets down https://twitter.com/sandroraniere

Sandro Raniere ‏@sandroraniere Apr 19
Good morning Guys, just to let you know that i'm not injured ! Hope that we can win the game today.
 
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Perhaps Tim thinks Sandro has had enough sitting on the bench watching Scott Parker play? He was taking pity on him ...

As for Sandro being good at breaking up counter-attacks; only if he gets in early. His basic tactic is to dive in and foul the runner with the ball, from what I have seen. If the runner builds up a head of steam, Sandro lacks the pace to keep up with those on the counter.

(I was thinking each person on the site should have a profile where they have to list 'favourites' - players they continue to rate even when everyone else is fed up with them - and 'what's all the fuss about?' players - individuals deemed to be over-rated by the Glory Glory masses. I freely admit Sandro fits in the latter category for me. He reminds me of Paul Stewart, without the pace.)

Dons tin helmet and ducks ...
 
Roland Beurre said:
Perhaps Tim thinks Sandro has had enough sitting on the bench watching Scott Parker play? He was taking pity on him ...

As for Sandro being good at breaking up counter-attacks; only if he gets in early. His basic tactic is to dive in and foul the runner with the ball, from what I have seen. If the runner builds up a head of steam, Sandro lacks the pace to keep up with those on the counter.

(I was thinking each person on the site should have a profile where they have to list 'favourites' - players they continue to rate even when everyone else is fed up with them - and 'what's all the fuss about?' players - individuals deemed to be over-rated by the Glory Glory masses. I freely admit Sandro fits in the latter category for me. He reminds me of Paul Stewart, without the pace.)

Dons tin helmet and ducks ...
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It's actually fairly rare for defensive midfielders to have the pace to keep up with the quicker attacking players. Sandro isn't slow for a defensive midfielder I think, not quick either perhaps, but somewhere around the average. If anything I would say he's a bit quicker than average, and he's also "quick footed".

Sandro is one of the best tacklers in the business, your description of him as someone whose basic tactic is to dive in and foul the runner is completely different to what I've seen.

A touch of evidence: http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3389/Stages/6531/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013 (player stats - defensive)

Sandro averaged 3.3 tackles per game 8th highest of all players in the league, if you look at the fouls per game compared to other players I see nothing to indicate that your description is accurate. Of the players ahead of him in terms of tackles per game only one player (Noble) with 1.3 fouls per game had fewer fouls per game, compared to Sandro's 1.5.

You also completely ignore positioning and discipline. So much of what a defensive midfielder does is down to getting your positioning right, and for me this is something Sandro is very good at. At the very least he's better than our other options in central midfield with the possible exception of Capoue (I have no opinion either way on comparing those two in terms of positioning).
 
its the system of play that matters.

sherwood may be of the opinion that sandro may not fit his system with no defensive shield in the center and with everyone going for attack.

i'm of the opinion that sherwood still thinks that its U21 football.
 
I think Sandro is a great defensive midfielder; perhaps the best one we've had in the PL era.

The problem is that recently he has been more reckless than usual; I put it down to: a) him of all responding to TS and his "blood and guts" speil b) playing in a team that is clearly not being coached very well (if at all) on defensive shape.

Having Sandro on the best in itself is not a big issue given his recent form; the problem is that it's partly due to poor form based on our current lack of defensive shape and most likely due to some spacegoating since his last-minute penalty giveaway (I bet TS was really ****ed with that as it was seconds after he was seen getting a good amount of backslapping in the stands in those last few moments...)
 
glorygloryeze said:
I think Sandro is a great defensive midfielder; perhaps the best one we've had in the PL era.

The problem is that recently he has been more reckless than usual; I put it down to: a) him of all responding to TS and his "blood and guts" speil b) playing in a team that is clearly not being coached very well (if at all) on defensive shape.

Having Sandro on the best in itself is not a big issue given his recent form; the problem is that it's partly due to poor form based on our current lack of defensive shape and most likely due to some spacegoating since his last-minute penalty giveaway (I bet TS was really ****ed with that as it was seconds after he was seen getting a good amount of backslapping in the stands in those last few moments...)
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Excellent observations IMO...
 
Sandro = not currently selected on form/performance. No drama, sinister conspiracy theories, or whatever else. To me, he hasn't been that special, so a case could be made either way. On recent showing he doesn't deserve to walk in to side. If Sherwood wasn't a rookie, Sandro wouldn't be giving it large. Not sure he'd feature under LVG, or even be in the squad.

By the way, I thought we were sorted at CB a few months ago when Daws signed his 'well deserved' new contract and people were big on Vlad?
 
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Roland Beurre said:
Perhaps Tim thinks Sandro has had enough sitting on the bench watching Scott Parker play? He was taking pity on him ...

As for Sandro being good at breaking up counter-attacks; only if he gets in early. His basic tactic is to dive in and foul the runner with the ball, from what I have seen. If the runner builds up a head of steam, Sandro lacks the pace to keep up with those on the counter.

(I was thinking each person on the site should have a profile where they have to list 'favourites' - players they continue to rate even when everyone else is fed up with them - and 'what's all the fuss about?' players - individuals deemed to be over-rated by the Glory Glory masses. I freely admit Sandro fits in the latter category for me. He reminds me of Paul Stewart, without the pace.)

Dons tin helmet and ducks ...
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Paul Stewart had pace lol
 
sc25 said:
Sandro = not currently selected on form/performance. No drama, sinister conspiracy theories, or whatever else. To me, he hasn't been that special, so a case could be made either way. On recent showing he doesn't deserve to walk in to side. If Sherwood wasn't a rookie, Sandro wouldn't be giving it large. Not sure he'd feature under LVG, or even be in the squad.

By the way, I thought we were sorted at CB a few months ago when Daws signed his 'well deserved' new contract and people were big on Vlad?
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At least we didn't get a "He's injured at the moment" quote when a player tweets "I'm not injured just not picked"
 
camspur said:
At least we didn't get a "He's injured at the moment" quote when a player tweets "I'm not injured just not picked"
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Yes, but only because he couldn't lie after Sandro's tweet...which bring up the question about some others not playing that we assume are 'injured':

- Lamela?
- Dawson?
- Capoue?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Yes, but only because he couldn't lie after Sandro's tweet...which bring up the question about some others not playing that we assume are 'injured':

- Lamela?
- Dawson?
- Capoue?
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All we need now is for Ledley King to tweet that he's actually been match fit all along...
 
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