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Pre Season 2024

Don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. I agree we’re not blessed with world class talent but you don’t always have to be, Arsenal are a very good team but only really have 2 world class players? Saliba and Odegaard. The defence is a massive cause for concern as is our inability to deal with set pieces but if we get off to a good start like we did last season, build some momentum and hopefully don’t suffer as many injuries as last season then there’s no reason why we can’t challenge for stuff. We’re at a similar level with Villa who finished 4th last season and I’m not overly worried about United, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Chelsea. I’d like to see how the first few months of the season play out first.
That was the point, you don't necessarily need world class talent in every position. Maybe that's even detrimental, depending on the personalities of said talent. It's the manager's job to make what he has works, and identify and beg the board for replacements in areas that's lacking. But you need a system and a gameplan, if not it's only a spaghetti approach. We as fans can only judge by what we see in matches, we do not have the luxury to see them in training, but we can see when something's not working. As I say, above all get the basics right. As an example, there was a lengthy spell where we couldn't string 3 passes together. If your gameplan depends on accurate passing, you either train for it (if you need to train professionals how to pass a ball), replace players or ditch that aspect of the gameplan. You don't use 2 seasons trying to get passing right or wait 5 seasons for someone to come good. Again, an example. For me, a good manager adapts rather than ride principles or play favourites out of form or that's not suitable for your system.

And by our defensive problems, I've said before that I'd rather have two CBs that has played together since forever - or drill in pairs, than have two fantastic CBs. Or a world class organizer. It doesn't help having 3, 4 or 10 CBs if they don't know what to do or who does what. This is an area where we've actually had some great pairings over the years.
 
That was the point, you don't necessarily need world class talent in every position. Maybe that's even detrimental, depending on the personalities of said talent. It's the manager's job to make what he has works, and identify and beg the board for replacements in areas that's lacking. But you need a system and a gameplan, if not it's only a spaghetti approach. We as fans can only judge by what we see in matches, we do not have the luxury to see them in training, but we can see when something's not working. As I say, above all get the basics right. As an example, there was a lengthy spell where we couldn't string 3 passes together. If your gameplan depends on accurate passing, you either train for it (if you need to train professionals how to pass a ball), replace players or ditch that aspect of the gameplan. You don't use 2 seasons trying to get passing right or wait 5 seasons for someone to come good. Again, an example. For me, a good manager adapts rather than ride principles or play favourites out of form or that's not suitable for your system.

And by our defensive problems, I've said before that I'd rather have two CBs that has played together since forever - or drill in pairs, than have two fantastic CBs. Or a world class organizer. It doesn't help having 3, 4 or 10 CBs if they don't know what to do or who does what. This is an area where we've actually had some great pairings over the years.
Arsenal are different
They focus on choking the game
We don’t. We focus on scoring more
Our issue is that if you don’t take your chances it’s game over. Ange saw that last year and knew that attack needed that focal point besides Richy … he just made those comments again yesterday after the game
It’s two different ways of getting the same outcome
 
Also no Richarlison/Solanke who do add a bit of height and physical presence. Though to be fair Dragusin is probably our strongest player in the air and probably won't start most games.

It is a concern, mostly based on last season. But let's see what actually happens in competitive games with closer to a full strength team.

Don't think Gray or Bergvall will start early on. Between Bentacur and Sarr to join Bissouma and Maddison.
Surely you don’t judge the progress in pre season though
If you do, every team above us has major issues as they have had some poor results… worse than ours
If 10 games in we can’t defend set pieces for brick and Vicario is still giving out suicide passes I’d be worried
 
That was the point, you don't necessarily need world class talent in every position. Maybe that's even detrimental, depending on the personalities of said talent. It's the manager's job to make what he has works, and identify and beg the board for replacements in areas that's lacking. But you need a system and a gameplan, if not it's only a spaghetti approach. We as fans can only judge by what we see in matches, we do not have the luxury to see them in training, but we can see when something's not working. As I say, above all get the basics right. As an example, there was a lengthy spell where we couldn't string 3 passes together. If your gameplan depends on accurate passing, you either train for it (if you need to train professionals how to pass a ball), replace players or ditch that aspect of the gameplan. You don't use 2 seasons trying to get passing right or wait 5 seasons for someone to come good. Again, an example. For me, a good manager adapts rather than ride principles or play favourites out of form or that's not suitable for your system.

And by our defensive problems, I've said before that I'd rather have two CBs that has played together since forever - or drill in pairs, than have two fantastic CBs. Or a world class organizer. It doesn't help having 3, 4 or 10 CBs if they don't know what to do or who does what. This is an area where we've actually had some great pairings over the years.
None of the top managers in recent years have adapted in this league. They have waited to buy the right players and taken the time

It’s why pep still wins most things because his system is ingrained so much he can now do small tweaks

Klopp changed his approach slightly when the Dutch coach returned after 3 years but ultimately it was still the same set ip

Arteta has changed over time to make arsenals strength their defence but that’s took 8/9 windows I think

It all takes time
 
None of the top managers in recent years have adapted in this league. They have waited to buy the right players and taken the time

It’s why pep still wins most things because his system is ingrained so much he can now do small tweaks

Klopp changed his approach slightly when the Dutch coach returned after 3 years but ultimately it was still the same set ip

Arteta has changed over time to make arsenals strength their defence but that’s took 8/9 windows I think

It all takes time
I don't disagree with this, as I mentioned the importance of having a functioning spine like Poch had - until he didn't. When you have that it makes the other components look good, and you can tweak and optimize as necessary. We ourselves have several examples of players who were made to look more useful than they really were, because they weren't a part of said spine. Some of it is of course due to our expectations as fans, but most of it is due to the lack of the qualities required. Winks, Sanchez and Alli comes to mind when I think about players who were asked to do things they simply couldn't.

Even though it has gotten better (it was truly horrible at times), I'd still not call us a strong passing team. From what I saw from Ange's start, this was an important aspect of how it appeared that he wanted us to play. No hoofball. Play out from the back with quick passing, and a central distributor making good use of the flanks. Dribble the ball into the net. Suddenly Maddison got injured, our passing went out the window, less pressing/ball retrieval, no apparent attacking plan other than hopeful crosses from the wings, and 1 shot on target per match. I just cannot understand what changed so immensely from losing one player, and I don't think swapping out a striker here or a defender there will fix this. But I look forward to see how Ange has us set up for the coming season, and getting in a pure striker can only be good. I'd like to emphasize that I don't want Ange out. I'm happy for us to get 8th-10th as long as I see something being built. I'm in it for the entertainment, without Spurs I wouldnt watch football anymore. I'm just not convinced he's quite the saviour and perfect fit I first thought during his purple patch. But time will show, I guess.
 
I don't disagree with this, as I mentioned the importance of having a functioning spine like Poch had - until he didn't. When you have that it makes the other components look good, and you can tweak and optimize as necessary. We ourselves have several examples of players who were made to look more useful than they really were, because they weren't a part of said spine. Some of it is of course due to our expectations as fans, but most of it is due to the lack of the qualities required. Winks, Sanchez and Alli comes to mind when I think about players who were asked to do things they simply couldn't.

Even though it has gotten better (it was truly horrible at times), I'd still not call us a strong passing team. From what I saw from Ange's start, this was an important aspect of how it appeared that he wanted us to play. No hoofball. Play out from the back with quick passing, and a central distributor making good use of the flanks. Dribble the ball into the net. Suddenly Maddison got injured, our passing went out the window, less pressing/ball retrieval, no apparent attacking plan other than hopeful crosses from the wings, and 1 shot on target per match. I just cannot understand what changed so immensely from losing one player, and I don't think swapping out a striker here or a defender there will fix this. But I look forward to see how Ange has us set up for the coming season, and getting in a pure striker can only be good. I'd like to emphasize that I don't want Ange out. I'm happy for us to get 8th-10th as long as I see something being built. I'm in it for the entertainment, without Spurs I wouldnt watch football anymore. I'm just not convinced he's quite the saviour and perfect fit I first thought during his purple patch. But time will show, I guess.
His purple patch coincided with playing the players who can play his game
When he lost a chunk of them (it wasn’t just Maddison) his deputy’s weren’t capable. That’s not new for any club and takes time and windows to resolve
He has been able to see the squad change quite a bit in the 3 windows he has been here and he also now will have the benefit of the best youth collective the club has ever produced (group not individuals)
His tactics works when players do it. When players think they know another way it causes and anomaly. Ange said it a few times that some have lost the confidence and trust in the system.
If everyone plays the way he wants and it’s wrong… that’s fine
Also if a player doesn’t, that’s for Ange to deal with
Once that all happens I’ll judge him more but for now I’m really happy
I think we have some worries coming for some players. Some senior players too. But I hope I’m wrong
 
Surely you don’t judge the progress in pre season though
If you do, every team above us has major issues as they have had some poor results… worse than ours
If 10 games in we can’t defend set pieces for brick and Vicario is still giving out suicide passes I’d be worried

Could not agree more and i have said that in a couple of other threads, pre season is firstly about gaining match fitness and trying out the new players. Results [imo]are not that important if we win them fine but its does not really mean that much in the long run.
 
Could not agree more and i have said that in a couple of other threads, pre season is firstly about gaining match fitness and trying out the new players. Results [imo]are not that important if we win them fine but its does not really mean that much in the long run.
I’m gonna contradict myself now and add that where pre season does help is new players get opportunities . In our case it’s the only time we have seen Ange dabble with the younger players and he can now see they get it and can play
That has to help and is only possible because of pre season
The rest of the time , with so many players away, it’s purely about fitness work
 
I think the result and general team performances from pre-season mean nothing at all.

However you can tell a lot about individual development and form.

For me the lessons from the last few weeks are:

- Spence's renaissance means we dont need to buy another RB
- Bergvall and Gray are first team ready, meaning we dont need to buy another CM
- Maddison is still miles off for some reason or other, whereas Kulu looks excellent
- Bentancur and Udogie look ready to hit their stride again
- Donely, Devine, Moore and Lankshear look first team squad ready. Donely's readiness has probably convinced us to sell Skipp and not buy another LB
 
Again they’re meaningless games that don’t count towards anything. Didn’t we beat Roma 5-0 under Ramos and then start the season bottom of the table?

You’re conflating preseason results with individuals condition, touch, confidence etc. Results are less important. How players are performing at the very least shows their fitness and maybe a little more too.
 
Watched the highlights, our playing out from the back is a real concern and how open we are when we lose the ball is also very concerning. Looks no different from last season.
Bayern will probably be one of the best pressing teams in Europe this season. Lacking 3 out of 4 first choice defenders. In a preseason where perhaps players will take even more risk than in competetive games.

Not concerned for now. Yes, reminds me of last season, where for parts of the season at least we were one of the best teams at playing out through pressure around imo.

We are vulnerable when we lose the ball, this is true. Comes with the system, but hopefully again, closer to a first choice back line should help a bit with that.
 
Bayern will probably be one of the best pressing teams in Europe this season. Lacking 3 out of 4 first choice defenders. In a preseason where perhaps players will take even more risk than in competetive games.

Not concerned for now. Yes, reminds me of last season, where for parts of the season at least we were one of the best teams at playing out through pressure around imo.

We are vulnerable when we lose the ball, this is true. Comes with the system, but hopefully again, closer to a first choice back line should help a bit with that.

I agree defence looked better when 1st teamers came on, but Son and Maddison gave little support on left and gave Davies and Spence too much to do.
 
I think the result and general team performances from pre-season mean nothing at all.

However you can tell a lot about individual development and form.

For me the lessons from the last few weeks are:

- Spence's renaissance means we dont need to buy another RB
- Bergvall and Gray are first team ready, meaning we dont need to buy another CM
- Maddison is still miles off for some reason or other, whereas Kulu looks excellent
- Bentancur and Udogie look ready to hit their stride again
- Donely, Devine, Moore and Lankshear look first team squad ready. Donely's readiness has probably convinced us to sell Skipp and not buy another LB
Maddison isn't miles of for me, but not showing his class for sure. Good thing that we have some options, but really could do with Maddison hitting form again.

Spence and Gray as "new" full back options along with Donley and Davies does give us options at the very least. Still think a CB/LB hybrid type player that really fits the system would be useful, but less pressing now and difficult to find.

I agree on players being first team squad ready, though if they stay or go on loan should depend on what kind of game time we're likely to be able to give them. Bergvall and Gray will have to prove themselves in the PL, prove themselves ready for a start, but they look likely to do so fairly quickly atm.
 
I agree defence looked better when 1st teamers came on, but Son and Maddison gave little support on left and gave Davies and Spence too much to do.
A lot changed between the halves for sure, for us and them.

Perhaps a fitness thing too. Being asked to press high and also give support when opponents get further forward takes a lot and they're probably not at peak fitness yet.

The difference between our strongest back 4 and the backup options remain really significant though.
 
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