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Pre Season 2024

papaspur said:
Bissouma had Caicedo next to him as well at Brighton, who I thought was the player we should've gone for instead of Bissouma (I was still happy with Bissouma though).
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I think Caicedo was and is average
I think a key for Brighton was …. Ball retention and players being comfortable keeping the ball moving
We struggle sometimes at that
 
Last Jan I thought an attacking player with goals in them was the priority (not a CB as everyone was saying). We got Werner but he doesn’t tuck the ball away frequently.

Son is the only attacker who is clinical. Teams can ensure Son is heavily marshalled, and the rest require easier opens to score. With the exception of Kulu and Poro. They aren’t consistent enough, but both have the mentality and focus as well as technique to put the ball away.

Still we are light on goal scorers. Our midfield don’t get enough. We need Udogie to step up and be clinical in the box, we need Johnson to be more of a goal threat and we need to replace Richarlison. Or have him rotate with a more instinctive quicker finisher.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Last Jan I thought an attacking player with goals in them was the priority (not a CB as everyone was saying). We got Werner but he doesn’t tuck the ball away frequently.

Son is the only attacker who is clinical. Teams can ensure Son is heavily marshalled, and the rest require easier opens to score. With the exception of Kulu and Poro. They aren’t consistent enough, but both have the mentality and focus as well as technique to put the ball away.

Still we are light on goal scorers. Our midfield don’t get enough. We need Udogie to step up and be clinical in the box, we need Johnson to be more of a goal threat and we need to replace Richarlison. Or have him rotate with a more instinctive quicker finisher.
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Just having someone to play the way Richy did when he was fit will be massive
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He did
Because son lost it
Repeatedly
Shockingly bad play
Well worth watching back
Because if you do you can see that if son cAn pass the ball better in aught space the counters don’t happen
And that doesn’t excuse VDV
We could have the best midfield in the world but if your CF can’t do the basics a CF does you will struggle
Look at Spain in the euros. Their CF worked every team but didn’t score uh because he is actually not great at that.
That gave everyone a focal point for their play and it worked
It’s that simple as to why I think a CF is the priority
Our midfield is Very good imo
Our wide options create plenty
But if the CF is not in the area or the box it’s pointless
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Completely disagree. And I think you overate our midfield and wide options in particular. Udogie gave the ball away and VDV slipped. That play was shocking, worse than Son giving the ball away which happens at that end of the pitch. Shouldn’t take just 2 passes for them to be through on goal. Same issue with the goal that made it 3-0. We lose the ball and one long punt and they’re one on one with our keeper. It was more Micky mouse than Micky van de ven in that particular game.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
It’s not normal for a CF to be on the edge of the area when we’re deep in their half. He should be in the box at least
The issue with son is he can’t play without space and you don’t get space against low blocks …. So he needs to play wide where he can have more room to impact
It’s why I think Ange has moved Kulu central now over son. He gives the gives the team presence and a focal point that works (small sample)
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Kane isn’t always in the area. He lingers around the edge of the box as well. You act like Son is completely incapable of playing the position when he was very successful playing that role in the first half of the season.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think Caicedo was and is average
I think a key for Brighton was …. Ball retention and players being comfortable keeping the ball moving
We struggle sometimes at that
Click to expand...

Brighton often got completely pumped between the good results, people only remember the highlight reel games, and yes Caicedo is a decent player but nothing more.

I think our midfield issue is right balance/mix, individually they are all decent, we need to find the right mix that has enough legs (Sarr), can turn into the press and pass (Bissouma), creative (Maddison), defensive cover (Gray)

In it's entirety the team needs more time with system, quite a group of the players are only going to have their 2nd season in PL, I'd expect improvements
 
Jurgen the German said:
Kane isn’t always in the area. He lingers around the edge of the box as well. You act like Son is completely incapable of playing the position when he was very successful playing that role in the first half of the season.
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He is ok against high lines
He can’t play against low blocks
I showed you that before with the teams he scored against
We’re not playing conte ball anymore
We have to stop putting players into positions they can’t play otherwise we will fail
Kane is a cf
He doesn’t linger around the box at Bayern… he is in the box scoring
Sonny is a wf where he has played his whole career and excelled
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He is ok against high lines
He can’t play against low blocks
I showed you that before with the teams he scored against
We’re not playing conte ball anymore
We have to stop putting players into positions they can’t play otherwise we will fail
Kane is a cf
He doesn’t linger around the box at Bayern… he is in the box scoring
Sonny is a wf where he has played his whole career and excelled
Click to expand...

Kane spent a lot of time outside the box during the euros often when our wingers put crosses into the box and he wasn’t there.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He did
Because son lost it
Repeatedly
Shockingly bad play
Well worth watching back
Because if you do you can see that if son cAn pass the ball better in aught space the counters don’t happen
And that doesn’t excuse VDV
We could have the best midfield in the world but if your CF can’t do the basics a CF does you will struggle
Look at Spain in the euros. Their CF worked every team but didn’t score uh because he is actually not great at that.
That gave everyone a focal point for their play and it worked
It’s that simple as to why I think a CF is the priority
Our midfield is Very good imo
Our wide options create plenty
But if the CF is not in the area or the box it’s pointless
Click to expand...
Morata was excellent at linkup play in the Euros.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He is ok against high lines
He can’t play against low blocks
I showed you that before with the teams he scored against
We’re not playing conte ball anymore
We have to stop putting players into positions they can’t play otherwise we will fail
Kane is a cf
He doesn’t linger around the box at Bayern… he is in the box scoring
Sonny is a wf where he has played his whole career and excelled
Click to expand...
I can't remember exactly how he was used but Son definitely had a few productive periods at CF when Kane was injured during the peak Pochettino years and he would have been facing a packed defense every game.

We need more options there but Son is a decent backup.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He is ok against high lines
He can’t play against low blocks
I showed you that before with the teams he scored against
We’re not playing conte ball anymore
We have to stop putting players into positions they can’t play otherwise we will fail
Kane is a cf
He doesn’t linger around the box at Bayern… he is in the box scoring
Sonny is a wf where he has played his whole career and excelled
Click to expand...

And that is where Toney could come in handy. He is potentially a bit of a disruptor. Seems to drag defenders out of position, and muscle them out of the game. He could help Son and others create more space. Being able to have both Toney and Richarlison on when chasing a game would give us a different dimension with both attacking crosses.
 
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afsoc4life said:
Morata was excellent at linkup play in the Euros.
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Yep
Retained the ball
Linked it up
The exact opposite of what son does
That’s not sons fault
It’s not something Richy is strong at either
But when people quote goal returns last season I sit here and think but imagine what a top CF would have have got
 
Pandy said:
I can't remember exactly how he was used but Son definitely had a few productive periods at CF when Kane was injured during the peak Pochettino years and he would have been facing a packed defense every game.

We need more options there but Son is a decent backup.
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Honestly…. Go back and look at the games again in that period
He played wide a lot more and Moura played CF as did Llorente
We just convince ourselves his is a CF because it looked like it with the system
Even under conte he still was a wide player. Difference was we had a world class Cf pulling the defence everywhere and passing to son
Toney can do some of that for sure imo
 
Jurgen the German said:
Kane spent a lot of time outside the box during the euros often when our wingers put crosses into the box and he wasn’t there.
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Ha ha
Your comparing England vs club football
We did t even have wingers FFS
Sakas crossing never beat the first man to hit the man in the box hence part of the issue
But at club level… like spurs… Kane is elite at being in the box to score his 350 odd goals
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Ha ha
Your comparing England vs club football
We did t even have wingers FFS
Sakas crossing never beat the first man to hit the man in the box hence part of the issue
But at club level… like spurs… Kane is elite at being in the box to score his 350 odd goals
Click to expand...

They put plenty of balls into the box and Kane was nowhere to be seen. If it was the other way round and a spurs player was putting balls into the box and the striker who wasn’t former spurs wasn’t there you’d be pointing it out.

I’m not claiming that Son is the perfect answer at CF but you seem to have this idea that he is the root of all our problems and the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game you specifically mentioned featured some absolutely appalling defending. Do you think the opposition should be through on our goal as a result of one long punt up the field? As I said before it was Mickey Mouse defending for more than one of those goals regardless of Son losing the ball. Given the choice I’d rather we sign another CF but with the options we have right now I still think he’s a better fit than Richarlison.
 
Jurgen the German said:
They put plenty of balls into the box and Kane was nowhere to be seen. If it was the other way round and a spurs player was putting balls into the box and the striker who wasn’t former spurs wasn’t there you’d be pointing it out.

I’m not claiming that Son is the perfect answer at CF but you seem to have this idea that he is the root of all our problems and the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game you specifically mentioned featured some absolutely appalling defending. Do you think the opposition should be through on our goal as a result of one long punt up the field? As I said before it was Mickey Mouse defending for more than one of those goals regardless of Son losing the ball. Given the choice I’d rather we sign another CF but with the options we have right now I still think he’s a better fit than Richarlison.
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No
I’ve said that son is great option wide
And at CF he is poor
He can’t keep a ball or pass a ball
So therefore in Ange ball he can’t play the game at CF
Especially as most teams play a low block against us
Because he can’t keep the ball it allows teams to counter more
Now Richy when fit, and despite his weaknesses was getting a goal a game
We also weren’t getting the same counters because he literally played on the CBS meaning there wasn’t a spare man for the opposition.
Appreciate you may not see it that way but the numbers don’t lie

Unless we move back to long ball counter attacking.. like Saudi Sportswashing Machine did to us … then Sonny is only good against 5 teams as CF. He can play WF against the rest and probably be very good

The issue with counter attacking is your team are getting turned. The reason why you need a CF is that they normally minimise that “punt” by putting pressure in the central areas where the opposition tend to start the counters

The sonny example form Saudi Sportswashing Machine was him and Maddison literally trying to play simple 1-2s on the the of their area meaning one of their 3 Cbs stepped out to them and their full back took the ball and launched a quick counter
That CB can’t do that if he is marking the CF
As I said, look at Morata for Spain to understand how Poseidon football works now. Most sides don’t have prolific CFs instead they have players do the basics well
 
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