Praise for the Academy

[LCLC]

If a player is good enough and ready then they'll get a chance no matter who the manager is. All managers want to win and will utilise their best team in doing so (except those like Dimmeh who have ulterior motives).

So the people involved in getting the player to that point, making them that good and that ready are the important ones. The one giving them their start is irrelevant as they'll just end up playing for another team if they don't play (unless there signed to Chel53a on a long contract just so that they can collect all the good, young players)

The amount of current league 1 players who were head and shoulders above their premiership peers but never got a chance is staggering.

If AVB had never left we would never have seen bentelab, Mason, kane where they are today. Of course they will make mistakes and you need to work with them properly, but talent and temperament wise we are now seeing that Young players in this country ARE good enough if given the chance. Southampton have shown the way and we have proven that wasnt a fluke by giving opportunities to a few young players who had basically been written off by most. There are now another crop who look the nuts who hopefully will become part of the squad very shortly.

If there isn't a commitment to giving young players a chance then everything else is irrelevant. 2014 saw our philosophy change and I hope that we keep to it.

 

[scaramanga]

The amount of current league 1 players who were head and shoulders above their premiership peers but never got a chance is staggering.

If AVB had never left we would never have seen bentelab, Mason, kane where they are today. Of course they will make mistakes and you need to work with them properly, but talent and temperament wise we are now seeing that Young players in this country ARE good enough if given the chance. Southampton have shown the way and we have proven that wasnt a fluke by giving opportunities to a few young players who had basically been written off by most. There are now another crop who look the nuts who hopefully will become part of the squad very shortly.

If there isn't a commitment to giving young players a chance then everything else is irrelevant. 2014 saw our philosophy change and I hope that we keep to it.

What does it matter where they were against others?

Players develop at different rates across their careers. If those league 1 players were good enough, they'd be in the PL now. Your argument goes completely against the point you're trying to make.

I don't want our club giving first team spots to future League 1 players, I want it giving first team spots to future top 4 quality or above. As I said, when those players are good enough and ready enough they'll get a chance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Avb had a commitment to the players who were signed under his reign IMO. 7 players are signed whilst yoir the boss, so you have to try to fit them in surely!!!

 

[braineclipse]

The amount of current league 1 players who were head and shoulders above their premiership peers but never got a chance is staggering.

If AVB had never left we would never have seen bentelab, Mason, kane where they are today. Of course they will make mistakes and you need to work with them properly, but talent and temperament wise we are now seeing that Young players in this country ARE good enough if given the chance. Southampton have shown the way and we have proven that wasnt a fluke by giving opportunities to a few young players who had basically been written off by most. There are now another crop who look the nuts who hopefully will become part of the squad very shortly.

If there isn't a commitment to giving young players a chance then everything else is irrelevant. 2014 saw our philosophy change and I hope that we keep to it.

That's not really what we're seeing.

What we're seeing is that young players at Spurs are good enough at this point in time. After years of hard work at the academy level, a new training ground etc.

We've also seen that at Southampton, a club with one of the most well respected academies in this country, players have managed to step up. Albeit with a more natural progression through the Championship and at a lower level PL club than the step up directly to a top 4 chasing club like us.

If not given the chance to play for the club then obviously it won't work out. But that doesn't make that the most important factor.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The amount of current league 1 players who were head and shoulders above their premiership peers but never got a chance is staggering.

If AVB had never left we would never have seen bentelab, Mason, kane where they are today. Of course they will make mistakes and you need to work with them properly, but talent and temperament wise we are now seeing that . Southampton have shown the way and we have proven that wasnt a fluke by giving opportunities to a few young players who had basically been written off by most. There are now Young players in this country ARE good enough if given the chanceanother crop who look the nuts who hopefully will become part of the squad very shortly.

If there isn't a commitment to giving young players a chance then everything else is irrelevant. 2014 saw our philosophy change and I hope that we keep to it.

I still think it's about ability, rather than opportunity.

For the past 2 decades English players have been coached the same way as they have been since the 70s. It's progressive clubs like us and Southampton that have changed the coaching (emphasis on technique over physicality + mental conditioning)

 

[the dza]

What does it matter where they were against others?

Players develop at different rates across their careers. If those league 1 players were good enough, they'd be in the PL now. Your argument goes completely against the point you're trying to make.

I don't want our club giving first team spots to future League 1 players, I want it giving first team spots to future top 4 quality or above. As I said, when those players are good enough and ready enough they'll get a chance.

I think his point was that Bentaleb, for example, was a better player than Capoue. AVB didn't see this and didn't give Bentaleb any opportunity to play, not even in Europa group games. Sherwood saw it straight away and gave the boy a chance. That extra bit of experience benefits the player and us, so that when he's fit this season, Poch has been able to put him straight in.

It's a pretty safe bet that if AVB was in charge over the period of time that Sherwood was, he wouldn't have picked Bentaleb. I'd speculate that he wouldn't have given Kane the league starts that Sherwood did either.

I'm pleased that we have a coach now who is willing to trust the younger players more, and who has the ability to improve them.

 

[scaramanga]

I think his point was that Bentaleb, for example, was a better player than Capoue. AVB didn't see this and didn't give Bentaleb any opportunity to play, not even in Europa group games. Sherwood saw it straight away and gave the boy a chance. That extra bit of experience benefits the player and us, so that when he's fit this season, Poch has been able to put him straight in.

It's a pretty safe bet that if AVB was in charge over the period of time that Sherwood was, he wouldn't have picked Bentaleb. I'd speculate that he wouldn't have given Kane the league starts that Sherwood did either.

I'm pleased that we have a coach now who is willing to trust the younger players more, and who has the ability to improve them.

What makes you think Bentaleb was ready before his first start?

And your assumption is just that - a very long way from a safe bet.

 

[Bonsaiboy]

I think his point was that Bentaleb, for example, was a better player than Capoue. AVB didn't see this and didn't give Bentaleb any opportunity to play, not even in Europa group games. Sherwood saw it straight away and gave the boy a chance. That extra bit of experience benefits the player and us, so that when he's fit this season, Poch has been able to put him straight in.

It's a pretty safe bet that if AVB was in charge over the period of time that Sherwood was, he wouldn't have picked Bentaleb. I'd speculate that he wouldn't have given Kane the league starts that Sherwood did either.

I'm pleased that we have a coach now who is willing to trust the younger players more, and who has the ability to improve them.

The guy's blagged a career as a football manager - if he hadn't lived in the same apartment block as Bobby Robson he'd be earning 30K selling insurance or something. He had absolutely no idea what did and didn't make a good footballer. His time at the club was a wasted 18 months of which only Bale profited by constantly having to bail us out when we playing badly, as we usually were under him. If he'd still been here, Bentaleb would be on loan at Swindon, Mason would have been sold to Millwall and Kane would be on loan at Crystal Palace. Utter con artist of a man who's parasited a career off the back of others.

 

[LCLC]

The guy's blagged a career as a football manager - if he hadn't lived in the same apartment block as Bobby Robson he'd be earning 30K selling insurance or something. He had absolutely no idea what did and didn't make a good footballer. His time at the club was a wasted 18 months of which only Bale profited by constantly having to bail us out when we playing badly, as we usually were under him. If he'd still been here, Bentaleb would be on loan at Swindon, Mason would have been sold to Millwall and Kane would be on loan at Crystal Palace. Utter con artist of a man who's parasited a career off the back of others.

But harsh but agree with the sentiment totally. I don't understand how (for most people) you can effectively manage footballers if you've never played the game to any standard.

AVB flopped twice because of a rigidness in his system and falling out with senior players. If he had played maybe hed understand things such as confidence, form, ego, dressing room politics.

Anyway im happy right now wih how things panned out. He set us back thus far that we now have given a manager and our academy a chance to build something

 

[scaramanga]

But harsh but agree with the sentiment totally. I don't understand how (for most people) you can effectively manage footballers if you've never played the game to any standard.

At least you've correctly identified the problem

 

[Modric THFC]

The guy's blagged a career as a football manager - if he hadn't lived in the same apartment block as Bobby Robson he'd be earning 30K selling insurance or something. He had absolutely no idea what did and didn't make a good footballer. His time at the club was a wasted 18 months of which only Bale profited by constantly having to bail us out when we playing badly, as we usually were under him. If he'd still been here, Bentaleb would be on loan at Swindon, Mason would have been sold to Millwall and Kane would be on loan at Crystal Palace. Utter con artist of a man who's parasited a career off the back of others.

Haha insurance! I think you are missing something here. He lived in the same exclusive building as Robson. His family are loaded. His granddad was a Duke or Earl or something. He'd be swanning around playing with Yachts in the Mediterranean or some ****.

 

[the dza]

What makes you think Bentaleb was ready before his first start?

And your assumption is just that - a very long way from a safe bet.

Because Sherwood put him in almost immediately and the player did pretty well. It's stupid to think that he wasn't good enough for Europa league minutes under AVB, and then immediately became ready to hold his own in Premier League games (once AVB was fired). Either the player transformed in the space of about 3 weeks, or AVB got it wrong with this player. I'm sure a man of your intelligence can make that leap. Therefore, Sherwood deserves credit for correctly evaluating the ability of the player and giving him the chance to play. Now he's further along in his development and the team benefits from it this season.

 

[scaramanga]

Because Sherwood put him in almost immediately and the player did pretty well. It's stupid to think that he wasn't good enough for Europa league minutes under AVB, and then immediately became ready to hold his own in Premier League games (once AVB was fired). Either the player transformed in the space of about 3 weeks, or AVB got it wrong with this player. I'm sure a man of your intelligence can make that leap. Therefore, Sherwood deserves credit for correctly evaluating the ability of the player and giving him the chance to play. Now he's further along in his development and the team benefits from it this season.

Maybe Sherwood (as the person responsible for doing so) hadn't correctly communicated how good Bentaleb was to AVB.

You're making a huge number of assumptions purely because they suit your disrust of AVB.

 

[the dza]

Maybe Sherwood (as the person responsible for doing so) hadn't correctly communicated how good Bentaleb was to AVB.

You're making a huge number of assumptions purely because they suit your disrust of AVB.

The only assumption I am making is that AVB didn't think Bentaleb was good enough for Europa league football because he didn't pick him. Apparently, I am the one making huge assumptions, yet you are saying AVB not picking the player is down to Sherwood not communicating -- double standards at all? :lol:

I am not a fan of AVB, but I would give him credit where it's due (the way he deployed Bale, getting the team to finish games stronger instead of letting in late goals). But you hate Sherwood so much that you cannot bring yourself to give him any credit -- when at the very least he deserves some credit for evaluating Bentaleb as fit for first team football, where the previous coach did not.

 

[Jordinho]

I think his point was that Bentaleb, for example, was a better player than Capoue. AVB didn't see this and didn't give Bentaleb any opportunity to play, not even in Europa group games. Sherwood saw it straight away and gave the boy a chance. That extra bit of experience benefits the player and us, so that when he's fit this season, Poch has been able to put him straight in.

It's a pretty safe bet that if AVB was in charge over the period of time that Sherwood was, he wouldn't have picked Bentaleb. I'd speculate that he wouldn't have given Kane the league starts that Sherwood did either.

I'm pleased that we have a coach now who is willing to trust the younger players more, and who has the ability to improve them.

Bentaleb played in pre season and was an unused sub in the Europa League, so it's not like AVB didn't know about him, but he wasn't ready to be a starter when Sherwood put him in the team. It helps that he now has a coach capable of instructing the players with what he wants them to do.

 

[the dza]

Bentaleb played in pre season and was an unused sub in the Europa League, so it's not like AVB didn't know about him, but he wasn't ready to be a starter when Sherwood put him in the team. It helps that he now has a coach capable of instructing the players with what he wants them to do.

He wasn't ready to be relied upon, but he was certainly at a level where he deserved a chance to play, especially given how poor some of the other midfielders were performing. That's why he was given a chance, but also why he wasn't picked every single game. He did pretty well with the opportunity he had and, imo, he will have gained a lot from that experience which has helped him come straight into the fold this season (when fit).

 

[Raziel]

I still think it's about ability, rather than opportunity.

For the past 2 decades English players have been coached the same way as they have been since the 70s. It's progressive clubs like us and Southampton that have changed the coaching (emphasis on technique over physicality + mental conditioning)

Agree with GB, fact is most players don't make it at the highest level in any sport, the numbers we are turning out says we are doing something right.

If our Academy was so good 10 or even 7 years ago, they would have walked on the first team.

 

[LCLC]

Bentaleb played in pre season and was an unused sub in the Europa League, so it's not like AVB didn't know about him, but he wasn't ready to be a starter when Sherwood put him in the team. It helps that he now has a coach capable of instructing the players with what he wants them to do.

He was earning rave reviews in the under 21s and was promoted to train with the senior team 'recommended by Sherwood'

 

[milo]

I think that it is a fair criticism of AVB's time here that not enough youth players progressed through to the first team. It was one of the things that Levy identified as expecting when he was appointed and for whatever reason, it did not happen enough. We know that there were issues with the professional relationship between AVB and Sherwood and I can imagine that they can both be difficult to work with. I remember reading on Windy's blog that he had never seen AVB at a youth/development squad game, it would be a shame if their professional relationship was so poor that it impacted on their ability to do their jobs properly and do what is best for the club.

 

[LCLC]

..... And I don't believe he even made the squad. He then came on against soton a week after AVB went and he couldn't make a match day squad and was excellent. He was was then very good against palace and arsenal too. He was certainly ready and whilst he is more consistent now, that has only come from actually playing.

Also there hasn't been an amazing shift in our academy and the likes of Chel53a, arsenal, liverpool tend to be winning leagues regularly as well as us. However those players paths are often blocked off (Wilson was knocking on the door for a while now) For sure we have improved and have a strong set up but its because we have given an opportunity to young academy players that you are making these assumptions. These guys were ready last year and TS said it - AVB wasnt interested and there's your fall out