Praise for the Academy

[Bedfordspurs]

When looking at these players you have to beat in mind what age their getting their chances typically it's after several loans where they have had the knocks, kicks and bruises

The only exception being bentelab but don't forgwt he was released by hai French side and we spotted him on trial for Birmingham

What they all have in common are that they have experienced the ups and downs that create character and hunger

 

[LCLC]

Inglethorpe did not coach each of those young players for 6/7 years - just the time that they were in his development squad. Sherwood played the same role with the development squad and then also gave a few of the players a proper chance in the first team (Kane and Bentaleb). You also (conveniently) forget how Sherwood was instrumental in Mason still being at Spurs today.

I don't want this to degenerate into another Sherwood was good/Sherwood was sh!t thread, but the way that you completely disregard him from anything positive that has happened to us bringing through youth products is now becoming ridiculous. Especially when you specifically name somebody (Inglethorpe) who had no more influence than Sherwood did.

Yep - it's hard not to get dragged into another debate when someone point blank refuses to acknowledge an instrumental part of developing young players.

Redknapp and AVB were horrific for youth development and rumours were rife that this why the TS/AVB fallout occurred. There is a HUGE difference between giving a kid 5mins and the odd appearance in a meaningless cup game and actually trusting young players to start over other players in the league and week in/week out. AVB said that he would do that and tbh the whole Tom Carroll thing was baffling. Carroll looked very accomplished when he played and why we felt the need to go and sign 3 central midfielders when he showed he could do a job in our squad was baffling. Anyway Poch has shown similar guts with Mason and respect is due to both him and Sherwood for their development of our players as well as the youth coaches.

 

[Raziel]

staying away from the manager stuff (enough of that in other threads)

it seems pretty clear we have an academy (and setup) capable of both

- producing a mix of PL level and top level players in fairly high numbers
- being a finishing school for promising youngsters we pick up from other clubs

People keep bleating about Southampton's academy record, but we must be closing that gap now.

When last did a club in the top half of PL actually play 3 homegrown players to start and have them score?

 

[Jordinho]

What's more important for youth development?

All the coaches that teach them the basics and the structure that emphasizes skill over size OR the person that gives them their debut or the one arranging loans?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Think we have to credit Levy. Ultimately he has the vision and made a decision a decade ago to put cash and time into the Academy. If you are looking for one person to praise, he's probably been the most instrumental ultimately. Then of course all the others including Sherwood, AVB, HR, etc. We are a well run club. Long may it continue.

Having younger players at the core of the club is a much better business model. Our teams may lack experience at times, but lower wages, potential growth, resale values are all massive benefits. Lamela, Eriksen, Walker, Dier, Yedlin can be added to the Academy players coming through as young developing talents. For those in the Academy now, imagine what a message the current graduates send to them: if you apply yourself your life could be transformed...playing in front of 60,000 odd home fans in a couple of years...

 

[LCLC]

What's more important for youth development?

All the coaches that teach them the basics and the structure that emphasizes skill over size OR the person that gives them their debut or the one arranging loans?

Tbh if by debuts you mean an actual run in the team then IMO this is more important and let me explain why. If you believe that we haven't had other players before who have been good enough to play for us then you would be naive. The problem is that if a youth player isn't kept on a trajectory for first team football then their progress strength and potentially attitude will begin to fall. It's all about confidence and timing and that is where we are now reaping some rewards for our faith and trust.

For example look at Harry Kane and what the perceptions of him were last season. He then got a manager to put a lot of trust in him, talked him up and then gave him an extended run in the side, which he managed to take, scoring 3 in 6 starts. He found a place in the squad and saw a route to start in the first team. Poch again talked him up and introduced him really well and Kane took the chance again and has done incredibly well..... his improvement will have partly come down to a confidence and belief whilst him being at a point where he was ready to be thrown in.

However say we still had a manager reluctant to give a prospect a proper chance then he probably would have got another championship/low end prem loan in a side that may be struggling and it is a tough environment for any kid to prosper. He may then have been sold on with his confidence and outlook affected - he may have lost a bit of interest in football and worked his way down the leagues.

This is all hypothetical but the amount of immensely talented lower league players who never got a chance and subsequently drifted around the leagues without a huge deal of motivation is staggering. An example would be Tom Caroll - just because he hasn't set the world alight at Swansea and QPR doesn't mean he can't come into our side and be a vital component of our team - the talent is there, it's just whether the team is balanced right, the opportunity arises and whether he can take it in a team suited to his strengths.

I am just so happy that our academy boys can finally see a ray of light and a route to our first team - this change could be massive for our club.

 

[braineclipse]

Think we have to credit Levy. Ultimately he has the vision and made a decision a decade ago to put cash and time into the Academy. If you are looking for one person to praise, he's probably been the most instrumental ultimately. Then of course all the others including Sherwood, AVB, HR, etc. We are a well run club. Long may it continue.

Having younger players at the core of the club is a much better business model. Our teams may lack experience at times, but lower wages, potential growth, resale values are all massive benefits. Lamela, Eriksen, Walker, Dier, Yedlin can be added to the Academy players coming through as young developing talents. For those in the Academy now, imagine what a message the current graduates send to them: if you apply yourself your life could be transformed...playing in front of 60,000 odd home fans in a couple of years...

He was the one who decided on and managed to oversee the new training ground too. Probably not the greatest factor, but I don't think it's hurting.

 

[Raziel]

Think we have to credit Levy. Ultimately he has the vision and made a decision a decade ago to put cash and time into the Academy. If you are looking for one person to praise, he's probably been the most instrumental ultimately. Then of course all the others including Sherwood, AVB, HR, etc. We are a well run club. Long may it continue.

Having younger players at the core of the club is a much better business model. Our teams may lack experience at times, but lower wages, potential growth, resale values are all massive benefits. Lamela, Eriksen, Walker, Dier, Yedlin can be added to the Academy players coming through as young developing talents. For those in the Academy now, imagine what a message the current graduates send to them: if you apply yourself your life could be transformed...playing in front of 60,000 odd home fans in a couple of years...

This ..

 

[Rorschach]

And those wishing for a sugar daddy might also do well to consider that the academy will almost become moot if we were to get one (a sugar daddy).

 

[Maltese Falcon]

And those wishing for a sugar daddy might also do well to consider that the academy will almost become moot if we were to get one (a sugar daddy).

Perfectly true... just look at Chelscum's squad against us!!

 

[scaramanga]

Tbh if by debuts you mean an actual run in the team then IMO this is more important and let me explain why. If you believe that we haven't had other players before who have been good enough to play for us then you would be naive. The problem is that if a youth player isn't kept on a trajectory for first team football then their progress strength and potentially attitude will begin to fall. It's all about confidence and timing and that is where we are now reaping some rewards for our faith and trust.

For example look at Harry Kane and what the perceptions of him were last season. He then got a manager to put a lot of trust in him, talked him up and then gave him an extended run in the side, which he managed to take, scoring 3 in 6 starts. He found a place in the squad and saw a route to start in the first team. Poch again talked him up and introduced him really well and Kane took the chance again and has done incredibly well..... his improvement will have partly come down to a confidence and belief whilst him being at a point where he was ready to be thrown in.

However say we still had a manager reluctant to give a prospect a proper chance then he probably would have got another championship/low end prem loan in a side that may be struggling and it is a tough environment for any kid to prosper. He may then have been sold on with his confidence and outlook affected - he may have lost a bit of interest in football and worked his way down the leagues.

This is all hypothetical but the amount of immensely talented lower league players who never got a chance and subsequently drifted around the leagues without a huge deal of motivation is staggering. An example would be Tom Caroll - just because he hasn't set the world alight at Swansea and QPR doesn't mean he can't come into our side and be a vital component of our team - the talent is there, it's just whether the team is balanced right, the opportunity arises and whether he can take it in a team suited to his strengths.

I am just so happy that our academy boys can finally see a ray of light and a route to our first team - this change could be massive for our club.

If a player is good enough and ready then they'll get a chance no matter who the manager is. All managers want to win and will utilise their best team in doing so (except those like Dimmeh who have ulterior motives).

So the people involved in getting the player to that point, making them that good and that ready are the important ones. The one giving them their start is irrelevant as they'll just end up playing for another team if they don't play (unless there signed to Chelsea on a long contract just so that they can collect all the good, young players)

 

[Gutter Boy]

And those wishing for a sugar daddy might also do well to consider that the academy will almost become moot if we were to get one (a sugar daddy).

I don't know - Barcelona seem to keep the blend reasonably well.

Lets not forget Alex Pritchard or Tom carroll

Livermore and Caulker are both England internationals

 

[milo]

Most of what I have taken about Sherwood's influence on the youth set up at Spurs I have learnt from Windy's blog. He was always very positive about Sherwood, Ferdinand and Ramsey.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Most of what I have taken about Sherwood's influence on the youth set up at Spurs I have learnt from Windy's blog. He was always very positive about Sherwood, Ferdinand and Ramsey.

They were fairly late comers to the party though.

Ramsey was U16s coach - so an age group or two beneath Inglethorpe (not saying he wasn't important)

IIRC Sherwood and Ferdinand only started working with youth teams (cf their 2 days a week with the first team) after Redknapp left. Inglethorpe went to Liverpool in 2012, which was when the trio took over from him.

 

[milo]

They were fairly late comers to the party though.

Ramsey was U16s coach - so an age group or two beneath Inglethorpe (not saying he wasn't important)

IIRC Sherwood and Ferdinand only started working with youth teams (cf their 2 days a week with the first team) after Redknapp left. Inglethorpe went to Liverpool in 2012, which was when the trio took over from him.

I don't think that you do yourself any favours trying to write the man out of history. Whether you like the man or not, he was an important part of our youth set up for a while and most of the people who watch a lot of youth football are positive about his contribution. That is not to say that Inglethorpe or particularly McDermott have not been important too.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think that you do yourself any favours trying to write the man out of history. Whether you like the man or not, he was an important part of our youth set up for a while and most of the people who watch a lot of youth football are positive about his contribution. That is not to say that Inglethorpe or particularly McDermott have not been important too.

I met Sherwood a few times and he wasn't very personal but that clearly wasn't a strength. I did however talk it him about the youth set up and that was when we played villa away and drew 1-1 all (Dawson second half goal). I can't remember the season but he was managing they set up then as he told me that irrelevant of what anyone else thinks

 

[braineclipse]

One of the things I really like about our academy and development squad is that we're clearly developing and improving players.

Stories now about how Kane was rejected by the scum, thank ****. Stories before of course about how Bentaleb was released in France and it was between us and Birmingham, thank ****.

We're not just trying to sign the best known 15-16 year old talents and hope that they come good. We're actually improving existing talents significantly. Not saying that other clubs aren't doing this, but I think we're setting ourselves apart a bit here.

I really think it's super important as the "sign the high profile 15-16 year old" route seems to be a marginal success at best for most clubs and pretty much a failure for others. We still need to add talents of course, we're doing so fairly quietly and with as low a profile as possible it seems.

 

[Spaceman]

staying away from the manager stuff (enough of that in other threads)

it seems pretty clear we have an academy (and setup) capable of both

- producing a mix of PL level and top level players in fairly high numbers
- being a finishing school for promising youngsters we pick up from other clubs

People keep bleating about Southampton's academy record, but we must be closing that gap now.

When last did a club in the top half of PL actually play 3 homegrown players to start and have them score?

completely agree.

i think its southampton, man u and spurs who have the best record atm for giving young players an opportunity or at least playing top flight football

 

[spurs' magna carter]

The last time we had a half team youth team before McDermott's work began to bare fruit?

1998 - King, Crouch, Thelwell and Johnnie F***ing Jackskon.

It's been a long time coming and its importance should mean no arguments over who did their bit and how. The evidence is Sherwood did a fine job with our academy, along with those already mentioned, escpecially McDermott and Inglethorpe.

20 years ago I envied the sh!t out of Ajax, they had the best team in Europe whilst also having the best stadium in the continent which boasted a retractable roof, the first outside of North America.

Some ten years later it dawned on me just how special Ajax was a club, the European Cups, the stadium and, of course their academy. During a discussion in History over who had the best academy in the World Ajax came up. After naming Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Overmars, Davids, De Boer brothers, Kluivert, Seedorf etc etc jaws dropped and we all knew who won the argument hands down, simply brushing aside the class of 92.

Ever since that day I've wanted us to be the new Ajax, we maybe way off such a feat but remember this, if it wasn't for our academy players we'd be mid table if not lower.

 

[the dza]

Good thread. I hope we see Carroll, Pritchard and Fredericks back here and involved in the first team squad too.