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Politics, politics, politics

r-u-s-x said:
They did not dismiss the technological solution (even though its pie in the sky) - they said go ahead and do it and if we cannot produce one then fall back to a boarder between Ireland and the UK. Thats the backstop they insisted on - if your way does not work we do this.

What they are protecting against is the UK getting what they want and Ireland not getting what they want by means of promising something that is not feasible or possible. Once this was put to the UK we refused as we also have no confidence in a technological solution. If we did we could have signed up to an agreement that had the proviso that if we could not deliver we give Ireland what they want.
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Hmm, that's not how i read it; source?
 
Scoopage said:
You cant just have a nation of rocket/media scientists. You need people that do jobs you seem to look down your nose at. They are the working class, the people who used to do those jobs. And are people really that much richer now?
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Yes they are.

Because the government pays them twice as much from our taxes as they previously earned working.
 
r-u-s-x said:
They did not dismiss the technological solution (even though its pie in the sky) - they said go ahead and do it and if we cannot produce one then fall back to a boarder between Ireland and the UK. Thats the backstop they insisted on - if your way does not work we do this.

What they are protecting against is the UK getting what they want and Ireland not getting what they want by means of promising something that is not feasible or possible. Once this was put to the UK we refused as we also have no confidence in a technological solution. If we did we could have signed up to an agreement that had the proviso that if we could not deliver we give Ireland what they want.
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Indeed. Way to many crossing point to make a technical solution a runner, even if there was something you could take off the shelf, which there is not. It would take years to develop anything remotely workable and even then it would be impractical and no doubt constantly vandalised.
 
monkeybarry said:
And therein lies the issue with a certain demographic.....

What certain demographic is that?

To be British is to contribute to Britain.
Not the colour of your passport.

Who told you that? You don't become British because you've done 6 months work in the country and neither would you become French if you worked a stint in Paris.


I have a simple question for you, why is the nationality of the protestor important to you?
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The calling for a second referendum is a big issue is it not? Whilst I don't want to infringe on their right to march with their Europhile comrades - EU workers from non Commonwealth European countries have no vote in UK referendum, just saying :)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, that's not how i read it; source?
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http://www.cityam.com/263190/brexit-eu-has-let-cat-out-bag-over-irish-border-solution

It has been reported the EU chief's negotiator Michel Barnier is prepared to accept technology could be used to monitor goods moving between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain after Brexit - meaning there would not need to be customs checks at the border.

That arrangement would still see Northern Ireland as part of the EU's Single Market and customs union if a trade agreement isn't reached by the time of Brexit - a position Theresa May has repeatedly ruled out as unacceptable.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...utions-as-brexit-deadline-looms-idUKKCN1LN1DF
We are ready to simplify these checks, to have them carried out at a number of different places and have checks, thanks to technical means, which could take different forms,” said, according to a transcript released by the British parliament

“They could be dispersed. They could take place in different places, on board vessels, in ports outside Ireland, they could be done using technological means, they could be dispersed, as I said, or simplified in technological terms.”
 
r-u-s-x said:
http://www.cityam.com/263190/brexit-eu-has-let-cat-out-bag-over-irish-border-solution

It has been reported the EU chief's negotiator Michel Barnier is prepared to accept technology could be used to monitor goods moving between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain after Brexit - meaning there would not need to be customs checks at the border.

That arrangement would still see Northern Ireland as part of the EU's Single Market and customs union if a trade agreement isn't reached by the time of Brexit - a position Theresa May has repeatedly ruled out as unacceptable.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...utions-as-brexit-deadline-looms-idUKKCN1LN1DF
We are ready to simplify these checks, to have them carried out at a number of different places and have checks, thanks to technical means, which could take different forms,” said, according to a transcript released by the British parliament

“They could be dispersed. They could take place in different places, on board vessels, in ports outside Ireland, they could be done using technological means, they could be dispersed, as I said, or simplified in technological terms.”
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But he's been saying that for ages, surely. The point is that any type of check, however painless, upsets the boot-faced creationists to the point where they'd scupper not just the deal - where their votes are less relevant - but the government.
 
wiziwig said:
The calling for a second referendum is a big issue is it not? Whilst I don't want to infringe on their right to march with their Europhile comrades - EU workers from non Commonwealth European countries have no vote in UK referendum, just saying :)
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So for you, to be British is by way of nationality, rather than ethos and contribution to the nation? Am I understanding that correctly?

Indeed they do not have a vote, which in itself is undemocratic (so should fly against the Brexiter principles if the principle of "taking back control" is one of democracy rather than fascism).

Indeed, calling for a second referendum is a big deal, and as such the voices of the people it directly affects should be heard - shouldn't they?
 
Scoopage said:
You cant just have a nation of rocket/media scientists. You need people that do jobs you seem to look down your nose at.
They are the working class, the people who used to do those jobs.

Remainers do not clean their own toilets , they have Eastern Europeans to that for them.


And are people really that much richer now?

Oh yes ... The average wage compared to average house price is now so much better for us all... In 1980 it were around 4 times the wage , now it's 9 times. We are richer.:rolleyes:

And they wonder why our birthrates have come down ....Need more imported Liberal humans..
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monkeybarry said:
So for you, to be British is by way of nationality, rather than ethos and contribution to the nation? Am I understanding that correctly?

Who told you that an immigrant, working on a short term basis makes them a national of the country? Do I become Japanese if I work in Tokyo?

Indeed they do not have a vote, which in itself is undemocratic (so should fly against the Brexiter principles if the principle of "taking back control" is one of democracy rather than fascism).

Yeah, that makes sense.... Can see it now with a second referendum ...People from all over Europe bussed in to vote in our referendum...And people still think you federalists can be reasoned with.

Indeed, calling for a second referendum is a big deal, and as such the voices of the people it directly affects should be heard - shouldn't they?

I've already answered that - they can join their Europhille mates in calling for a referendum but they're not British so therefore cannot vote.
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Scoopage said:
You cant just have a nation of rocket/media scientists. You need people that do jobs you seem to look down your nose at. They are the working class, the people who used to do those jobs. And are people really that much richer now?
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This is very much the Jacob Reese Mog approach. Some people would love a return to surfdom. With the elite able to use the poor to clean their boots. Would you be happy to do the cleaning jobs? The only way to get British people to this work, is if there are no other options open to them, and then many would probably prefer to move country anyway as they are educated and able.

To care for our aging population immigration is crucial. Thankfully people from other countries are able to supplement our carers and nurses to ensure the elderly are not left by themselves without care. I maybe wrong, but I doubt that you would take on one of these jobs yourself? Why do you suppose others would?
 
@Scoopage as to whether people are that much richer now. Of course. Pre-Eu membership there was the 4 day working week. In relative terms the UK was poorer than other countries in Europe. It was called the Sick Man of Europe. In the days when Brits did the jobs that you think they should be doing - fruit picking, menial labour - people lived hand to mouth. Dock workers used to queue up at the docks to try and get a days work. In the summer they'd go fruit picking. These days those jobs have been done by a transient immigrant community, who to be fair to them, often return back to Poland, Romania etc when the work finishes.

So yes, we are far richer now. Is money everything? No. As a society we need to look at re-ballancing our priorities. But we should do this without making ourselves a lot poorer so Brits need to pick fruit and scrub floors to get by. Where is the advantage in having less to spend on schools, hospitals etc. We should aim to look forward and develop, not regress.
 
SpurMeUp said:
@Scoopage as to whether people are that much richer now. Of course. Pre-Eu membership there was the 4 day working week. In relative terms the UK was poorer than other countries in Europe. It was called the Sick Man of Europe. In the days when Brits did the jobs that you think they should be doing - fruit picking, menial labour - people lived hand to mouth. Dock workers used to queue up at the docks to try and get a days work. In the summer they'd go fruit picking. These days those jobs have been done by a transient immigrant community, who to be fair to them, often return back to Poland, Romania etc when the work finishes.

So yes, we are far richer now. Is money everything? No. As a society we need to look at re-ballancing our priorities. But we should do this without making ourselves a lot poorer so Brits need to pick fruit and scrub floors to get by. Where is the advantage in having less to spend on schools, hospitals etc. We should aim to look forward and develop, not regress.
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Richer now than in 2004 is I what meant and not importing a workforce to do the the jobs deemed below "us" comes across a bit masterace like. People should be working doing those kinds of jobs instead of signing on.
Constantly importing cheaper labour isn't gonna solve the problem (The same as the export of jobs to the east can't go on forever).
You should (I don't live in the UK anymore) be bringing back Grammar Schools, Technical Schools, Apprenticeships and getting away from the constant push for school results. Not everyone is academically minded, those not should be vocationally educated.
 
Scoopage said:
Richer now than in 2004 is I what meant and not importing a workforce to do the the jobs deemed below "us" comes across a bit masterace like. People should be working doing those kinds of jobs instead of signing on.
Constantly importing cheaper labour isn't gonna solve the problem (The same as the export of jobs to the east can't go on forever).
You should (I don't live in the UK anymore) be bringing back Grammar Schools, Technical Schools, Apprenticeships and getting away from the constant push for school results. Not everyone is academically minded, those not should be vocationally educated.
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Good post.
 
Still having the same arguments re. pros and cons of Brexit, more than 2 years after the vote. I will be glad when it's done.
 
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