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Politics, politics, politics

I'm not sure Macron is the best example. He's not very popular domestically and is pretty much a rehash of what Hollande was 6 years ago.

A better example would be Trudeau, Ardern, Di Maio or even Obama.

I like what I've seen of James Cleverly (though I keep thinking of the novelist James Clavell)

It's definitely an odd example, Macron is only interesting as someone who created a new centrist party from scratch. Relevant to UK politics, hopefully, but not relevant to the Tory leadership debate.

The names that are chucked about there suggest that the search is for a new Cameron. Post-Brexit, less offensively posh, but still fundamentally one-nation. Which would be the sensible thing for them to do, I guess.
 
He certainly got me agreeing with @scaramanga when you last brought him up, so I guess he's capable of unifying people across the political spectrum.

Don't you wish the whole country had a constitution as good as Sheffield's?:

4E75507B00000578-0-image-a-25_1532176556866.jpg
 
Don't you wish the whole country had a constitution as good as Sheffield's?:

4E75507B00000578-0-image-a-25_1532176556866.jpg

No. He’s clearly the worst thing that has happened to Sheffield, ever. All your neighbours must be dumbstruck with embarrassment, wishing fervently that Threads had been a documentary, with a cleansing holocaust sparing South Yorkshire from the horrors of 21st century democracy. If posters like that appeared in London, I would move to Pyongyang.
 
BBC
Brexit: PM's compromises a 'concern' for cabinet ministers
Cabinet ministers raised concerns about potential compromises with the EU over Brexit at a No 10 meeting.

There is talk of the UK staying in a form of customs union with the EU for an unlimited period, if a post-Brexit trade deal cannot be done in time.

No 10 has insisted that any such arrangement would be "time limited".

EU leaders meet in Brussels next week for what European Council President Donald Tusk has called the "moment of truth for Brexit negotiations".


The UK and the EU both want to avoid a "hard border" - physical checks or infrastructure between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - should a long-term trade deal not be concluded before the end of the 2020, but cannot agree how.

Brussels has proposed what it calls a backstop plan that would see Northern Ireland staying in the EU customs union - something the UK says is unacceptable as it would effectively create a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, down the Irish Sea.

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said it was understood that the EU was now prepared to accept the idea of the whole of the UK remaining in the customs union if a trade deal cannot be done during the so-called "transition period", which is due to end in December 2020.

The EU has so far resisted British attempts to agree a finish date for the backstop, but many Conservative Brexiteers argue an open-ended arrangement is unacceptable.

It is understood that cabinet ministers Liam Fox, Michael Gove, Dominic Raab and Jeremy Hunt expressed concerns about the possibility of such an outcome.

And the BBC understands another senior minister, Commons leader Andrea Leadsom, was "thinking carefully about whether she could put up with such a compromise" amid speculation she could resign.

Earlier, Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey, who was not at the Downing Street meeting, refused to endorse the prime minister's blueprint for Brexit.



Cabinet unease over open-ended customs union
Laura Kuenssberg

Apart from Michael Gove only narrowly avoiding a bus on Whitehall as it broke up, on the face of it the meeting tonight was rather uneventful.

No decisions were taken. There were, as yet, no resignations. No-one, I'm told, even had a big strop. Honestly!

But after two years of huffing and puffing and haggling, one thing is becoming clear.

The prime minister has always said that the UK could not accept staying in the customs union.

But there are signs that the UK is considering whether to stay in an almost-identical arrangement for good, if a wider trade deal can't be done.

You guessed it, it's all about Northern Ireland again. And regular readers here will know that avoiding a return to the borders of the past has for months been the biggest headache.

In theory if, as Number 10 hopes, a super-duper trade deal can be done, then you don't have to worry about it.

But there are such doubts about that happening in time, that the backstop argument is politically vital.

Here's what might be good news for the UK.

The negotiators seem to have persuaded the EU that if the trade deal isn't done by the end of 2020, then the whole country, not just Northern Ireland, should stay in what's essentially the customs union (even though it would probably be known by another name).

This hope was set out months ago under the so-called Temporary Customs Arrangement.

There was a row in cabinet then about whether it needed to include a time limit. In the end, it did have one written into it, after threats of resignations.

Back then, the EU just would not accept that kind of arrangement for the whole country. Brussels' alternative backstop proposal would basically carve off Northern Ireland.

They have now, it seems, accepted the notion of a customs union for the whole country as part of the deal.

But they are not budging on giving that to the UK with a time limit too.

For several cabinet ministers, that's simply not acceptable. The Brexit Secretary himself is on the record saying as much.

Brexiteers have long argued that if the UK stays in the customs union, it's hardly like leaving the EU at all.

And at the meeting today, several ministers, including Dominic Raab, Liam Fox, Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove made that concern plain, not just because there are questions about whether it's the right thing to do, but also about whether it could clear the House of Commons.

And at least one cabinet minister, Andrea Leadsom, is thinking carefully about whether she could put up with such a compromise. Essentially that's code for deciding whether to resign.

At the meeting this afternoon, I'm told the prime minister did not explicitly tell her colleagues she was planning to do this, rather she was sounding them out.

But in other briefings today, officials are understood to have been rather more clear, saying that Number 10 stands ready to accept a backstop with no explicit time limit.

None of this is at this stage being officially confirmed.

But it's clear tonight that Number 10 is considering whether what was once seen as an unpalatable step to take, is the reasonable price for a deal.

One senior government figure suggested to me months ago this was the only eventual outcome. But the prime minister's critics will come roaring out if and when she makes that clear.

PS: Number 10 won't comment officially

PPS: Those of you who have really been paying attention will know this is separate to the other big problem in the potential compromise, increasing the number of checks on goods moving between Britain and Northern Ireland.

That's a different headache for Theresa May and no less problematic.
 
The whole things is a 'concern'. The simple reality is that soft Brexit leaves no one happy, and hard Brexit is a disaster. The sooner people make that realisation, the sooner we can move on and try and address some of the Brexit sentiments from within the EU.
 
The whole things is a 'concern'. The simple reality is that soft Brexit leaves no one happy, and hard Brexit is a disaster. The sooner people make that realisation, the sooner we can move on and try and address some of the Brexit sentiments from within the EU.

Kowtow to the ancien regime you plebs. Blair, Clegg and Adonis know what's best for you
 
There would be "no deal."

Well, yes and no.

There isn't a parliamentary majority for crashing out. Quite what Parliament would do is unclear; consensual extension and renegotiation is more likely than unilateral revocation, though, and that would likely require a general election or a second referendum to be acceptable to the 27.

I'll march again on Saturday for a second referendum, but I think that a GE is by far the most likely way out of that impasse. Probably with a Tory leadership election thrown in.
 
Well, yes and no.

There isn't a parliamentary majority for crashing out. Quite what Parliament would do is unclear; consensual extension and renegotiation is more likely than unilateral revocation, though, and that would likely require a general election or a second referendum to be acceptable to the 27.

I'll march again on Saturday for a second referendum, but I think that a GE is by far the most likely way out of that impasse. Probably with a Tory leadership election thrown in.

I hope so.
 
No idea, but I want to see this Tory government gone. I'd hope that a GE would result in that.

Sadly with Corbyn in charge the establisment will not relent with a campaign against him. He will have to take on all the press and established media, and he's starting from a point where traditional Labour people are not sure they can vote for him. I don't want to tinkle on anyones strawberrys but given the state of the Tories, he should be double digit points ahead now.

I just can't see him doing it. Not impossile, but highly unlikely looking at the ingredients as they are now.
 
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Will a GE sort it? Both parties will likely sit on the fence regarding Brexit and only extend the bolocks. When we need to cancel this farce and move on.

You just cancel it and move on as you put it. You will have 17 million people feeling lied to and betrayed.

In this country we have seen a resurgent left wing movement. You betray 17m people and it won't be just UKIP you need to worry about it will be the BNP. Britain has not shown the same interest in the far right as the rest of Europe but you deny 17million people democracy you are storing up issues down the line.
 
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