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Politics, politics, politics

Ok so the EU army... A major source of concern for Brexitiers... Will it happen or not I'm not sure... But lets assume it does.

UK on its own against an agressor like Russia wouldn't end well for us. But as part of a EU army, then Russia would almost certainly be on the losing side (assuming all EU 28 took part).

But we have NATO for that I hear you cry!

Except trump has proven how potentially transient the NATO Allience is,and how much it relies on the US.

Which brings me to my next point.

Independent millitary policy... Are we to forever follow the US in to wars we don't agree with? Or can we form an EU millitary union that is independent of US foreign policy?

Discuss?
 
There's only two serious military powers in Europe - Britain and France. It not like any of the other countries contribute much other than a few airbases

The EU army is just a power grab into something the EU doesn't need to meddle in. Why should Eurocrats dictate sovereign decisions on military interventions?
 
I think some sort of European defence force is an excellent idea to be honest -- insurance against Presidents like Trump phucking up NATO (though imo he won't be allowed to do too much damage to it, but you never know). Get the French to fully commit their nukes and we can not bother with Trident too imo. And it helps to further consolidate peace among European nations.
 
As an expat I'm probably out of touch but as this Brexit argument rambles on like a Wenger tenure, it strikes me that a lot of other, possibly more urgent causes are being ignored. Why can't someone in government just take control, sort this crap out and move onto something less divisive.
 
Even coming second in a leadership election means a hugely raised profile and usually one of the big 3 cabinet jobs. It's pure ambition - the same as Gove and lots of others are on manoeuvres now

I think Greening is much more anti-May (revenge for being stripped of Education for going too native) than she is pro-EU
 
SpurMeUp said:
“only solution is to take the final Brexit decision out of the hands of deadlocked politicians” by letting voters choose from three options: May’s final deal, a no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU.

She is right isn't she?

@ShipOfGoldblum how would such a vote work?
Click to expand...

Rigging a vote by splitting leavers?

If there is a 3rd referendum, it should be WTO vs May's plan.

If you get people to vote again on the same question because they voted 'wrong' the last time, you disenfranchise the whole of middle and working class England, and turn generations away from democracy
 
SpurMeUp said:
“only solution is to take the final Brexit decision out of the hands of deadlocked politicians” by letting voters choose from three options: May’s final deal, a no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU.

She is right isn't she?

@ShipOfGoldblum how would such a vote work?
Click to expand...
Why would we vote on Mays final deal? what happens when it gets rejected by the EU- we go back to the polls.

I would say we need a transferable vote-

In / Out - if out then Hard / soft.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Rigging a vote by splitting leavers?

If there is a 3rd referendum, it should be WTO vs May's plan.

If you get people to vote again on the same question because they voted 'wrong' the last time, you disenfranchise the whole of middle and working class England, and turn generations away from democracy
Click to expand...
You get people to vote due to the fact they have more certainty on what they are voting on than last time rather than they were wrong - they were misinformed.

More informed opinion is better - I agree with you on the splitting the leavers bit (this is similar to General Election where most people do not vote right wing but tories get in).
 
Gutter Boy said:
Rigging a vote by splitting leavers?

If there is a 3rd referendum, it should be WTO vs May's plan.

If you get people to vote again on the same question because they voted 'wrong' the last time, you disenfranchise the whole of middle and working class England, and turn generations away from democracy
Click to expand...

I disagree.
The "wrong" is the politicians ability to form a version of Brexit that is not a mess.
So by adding in an option to reverse the decision, you give the leavers who don't like this version the Chance to say, "none of the above".
Although it does weight the vote to revoking A50 that way, so something more sophisticated is required.
 
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