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Politics, politics, politics

galeforce said:
Incredible how many bot posts are in those threads already, Twitter really suck at cleaning them out.
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Quite. Russian astroturfing is rampant and then you see idiots on the hard left and right parroting his spin.

It is a real problem in wider political debate too. The Russian policy is to confuse people so that they do not know what to believe. You frequently see people argue that all points are valid, even when one has little evidential support. It is terrifying how successful they have been and how much they have undermined western democracy.
 
Gutter Boy said:
This is brilliant. The Mayor of Sheffield bans Trump from the city, while wearing a sombrero: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leeds-44656267?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5b3cca4df0f2e1066d524894&Lord Mayor 'bans' Donald Trump while wearing sombrero&&ns_fee=0#post_5b3cca4df0f2e1066d524894

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014494400532148225

That's the kind of politicians we need in Westminster
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He likes custard as well apparently. Although I'm not sure describing the president of the United States a waste man is what we really need in Westminister, although I'm not far off agreeing With him
 
milo said:
This is consistently the best Brexit blog around and this is very good

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014915448670957568
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Dooooomed.

The intersting thing is how this plays out. To in and out alike, what's your guess at how this will resolve or unravel?

What we know so far: neither the EU or Brexiteers will be happy and will probably reject what is being put on the table. Most sane people also reject Hard Brexit.

Where does that leave us and what is likely?

We don't reach a deal. May resigns. We either have an election or new referendum?

It could all get very messy before this is resolved. Ideally you'd have someone stand up and shout 'Emperors New Clothes' at Brexit, and we could cancel article 50 and move on. But some peoples positions have become so entrenched they would damage our nation in the name of them being right about the EU and the UKs relationship with it.

...thinking out lound...I think the only solution is another referendum, possibly with the EU-exit options on the table. If May resigns it just leaves the UK in greater limbo.
 
The only real options are second referendum (and I’m sure I’ve posted before umpteen times about a four-option transferable vote), article 50 extension, indefinite transition as a rule-taking CU/SM temporary associate member, or chaos. Chaos is still quite likely.
 
Yes, hard brexit is much more likely as an accidental outcome of collapsed talks and running out of road. And even then, it would presumably be a temporary crisis rather then a permanent Mad Max affair.
 
One would indeed hope that, and by that point the warning noises would be pretty tough to ignore. But the Brexiteers have a bizarre faith in the virtue of last minute deals and in their ability to play chicken with Brussels.
 
Yes, that’s how I was seeing it happen too, I’m just not completely sure that the government collapses. If Tory remainers won’t challenge the government over a meaningful vote, would they really go for a vote of no confidence and risk a) a Corbyn administration and b) blame for bringing it about?
 
Surely domestic issues would concern them most, and if we were heading towards no deal then there would be loads of noise from Brussels and Dublin about special arrangements for NI, which they would be duty-bound implacably to resist.
 
Anyway, the interesting answers to the @SpurMeUp question would be from our sunlit uplanders, our sovereignty fetishists and our Jez-worshipping Lexiteers. Fascinated to see how they think it will turn out. Cake for everyone, presumably.
 
milo said:
This is interesting

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014946559149182976
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As we're doing futurology...could this current EU immigration crisis be part of the solution to Brexit? If the EU develops or tweeks its free movement laws to give nations more controls, whether temporary controls or permanent, it could appease one of the critical things in Brexit, and turn the popular vote.

But is there enough time, or for that matter the vision by key people in the UK government? It's seems that this government are good for one thing only - last ditch problem solving. It seems to be what May excels at. But it's not what is required to lead us out of this mess - one way or the other.
 
The EU migration crisis isn’t about EU citizens, though. It’s about undocumented migrants. It’s a Schengen problem - so, nothing to do with us - and a sea border problem for Southern Europe. As far as I know, the UK is the only country where free movement of EU citizens is a major political issue.
 
Schengen does go hand in hand with fairly lax border controls, though. Obviously being a continental land mass helps. It’s not tricky to pop from one country to another if you’re on foot.

Actually, rereading, think we are making the same point.
 
I don't think we should artificially prop up industries that can't compete globally. If China can match our quality and do so cheaper then let them do so.
 
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