Politics, politics, politics

[the dza]

This is what everybody already knew though right? That the government did these forecasts and they were bad news, so then they said they didn't exist (if they were good news, they'd have paraded them around). But now it turns out that they do exist, so they have called them something else and said that "all our forecasts are rubbish anyway."

The handling of Brexit, up to this point, has been farcical.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

So why, if we trust democracy, do the young want to stay in the EU, and the old wish to exit it?

Reminds me of a drunk Aussie I knew who said we should all start driving on the same side of the road as the rest of Europe, straight faced he told me he would do it in phases, so the first month just buses, next month vans and then finally cars could drive on the other side of the road a month later.

If the young want to stay in let them win a referendum.

I am not so angry about it as I do not think the is a cat in hells(what an odd expression) chance of us leaving the EU.

In fact I think we will probably end up paying in something each year and getting some limited extra laws. Probably something to do with immigration that was such a big thing for most of the leave campaign. Some sort of Norway type deal.

I wanted us to pull out completely, but the torries are a shower of brick(what an odd expression) they should have been striking trade deals already with our common wealth partners Australia, New Zealand, Canada and India. Some will say it is against EU law but the French and Germans brake EU laws all the time and all we would be doing is looking for trading partners not exactly war mongers or little Englanders.

I maintain that if we left the EU the tories who have a strong base of anti europeans would not be as strong force at the polls and this country would vote for liberal minded parties where the conservatives would have to position themselves to even stand a chance of being elected. I think a lot are against Brexit because they see it as a Conservative plot, when actually if it came off it would have to then change the Conservative party.

I want to see a country not one to dissimilar to the one @Gutter Boy often describes, I think we should be aiming towards total reliability on energy needs and aiming very high with food needs, with the advance in technology in vertical farming and greenhouses we should be aiming to feed ourselves. Then we could realign the economy into renewable and advanced technology. The future could be bright and we could be global instead of tying ourselves to a dying block.

I realise that I have started the last 6 paragraphs with the letter I and my old English teacher will be turning in his grave and I dont care, because he was a cnut.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

This is what everybody already knew though right? That the government did these forecasts and they were bad news, so then they said they didn't exist (if they were good news, they'd have paraded them around). But now it turns out that they do exist, so they have called them something else and said that "all our forecasts are rubbish anyway."

The handling of Brexit, up to this point, has been farcical.

I agree, though I hate him as much as anyone and that is shown by me starting the Trump thread. Though he might have put some peoples backs out, I think Trump with his bull in a china shop routine would have made a good go of Brexit, ruffled feathers but got stuff done.

Britain has one of the biggest armies in Europe not big by global standards I grant you, we are also one of only two nuclear powers in Europe, with an increasingly aggressive Russia on Europe's border we should have made more of our military capacity in negotiations. Sort of, be our friend and we will be yours wink wink nod nod, type of thing.

As it is, if or rather when Putin rolls into eastern europe I hope we dont lift a finger. My friends in the eastern part of Latvia all want to be part of Russia anyway.

 

[Gutter Boy]

So why, if we trust democracy, do the young want to stay in the EU, and the old wish to exit it?

Because the old have witness 40 years of ever growing imperialist tendencies, while the young were sold the duds of roaming charges and being kicked out of eurovision?

I'm not being serious about the second part - I knew and cared more about politics at 16 than I ever have since. But I do think the longer exposure people have had to the EU's power grabs and machinations, the more people are opposed to it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Because the old have witness 40 years of ever growing imperialist tendencies, while the young were sold the duds of roaming charges and being kicked out of eurovision?

I'm not being serious about the second part - I knew and cared more about politics at 16 than I ever have since. But I do think the longer exposure people have had to the EU's power grabs and machinations, the more people are opposed to it.

@Danishfurniturelover love the drunk story. Lots of other good points too.

I think if we're honest, most of the general public couldn't name one "power grab or machination" that the EU has made that impacts their lives negatively. If fact it'd be easier to find examples of how the EU had made positive changes. Pollution improvements, phone roaming etc.

I'd guess that for younger people, they are keen to be part of the continent, something happens when people get older, they step back and look to 'pull up the draw bridge'. Younger people like the freedom and opportunity to travel, maybe work in these countries, and to be part of a larger entity that does help with pollution and other civil interests. Europe is historically and also now, one of the most plural advanced areas of the world. Brexiteers say we still want to work with these advanced nations, and to trade... Younger people don't get why they'd vote to leave then.

There is data on how in every country - bar Sweden - older people become increasingly anti-immigration. In every country. So its a human psychological phenomenon. The old are more inclined to retreat from outsiders, and maybe the young are more inclined to them?

 

[the dza]

I agree, though I hate him as much as anyone and that is shown by me starting the Trump thread. Though he might have put some peoples backs out, I think Trump with his bull in a china shop routine would have made a good go of Brexit, ruffled feathers but got stuff done.

Britain has one of the biggest armies in Europe not big by global standards I grant you, we are also one of only two nuclear powers in Europe, with an increasingly aggressive Russia on Europe's border we should have made more of our military capacity in negotiations. Sort of, be our friend and we will be yours wink wink nod nod, type of thing.

As it is, if or rather when Putin rolls into eastern europe I hope we dont lift a finger. My friends in the eastern part of Latvia all want to be part of Russia anyway.

NATO makes that somewhat irrelevant imo. Pretty much all EU countries are in NATO and are protected by the yanks. Part of the reason for Russia's aggressive posture is a response to NATO expanding ever eastwards, towards their border.

As a member of NATO, Britain would still be obliged to come to the aid of the Eastern European countries who are NATO members, if it came to it, regardless of EU membership.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

NATO makes that somewhat irrelevant imo. Pretty much all EU countries are in NATO and are protected by the yanks. Part of the reason for Russia's aggressive posture is a response to NATO expanding ever eastwards, towards their border.

As a member of NATO, Britain would still be obliged to come to the aid of the Eastern European countries who are NATO members, if it came to it, regardless of EU membership.

You think NATO or rather America will truly care when Putin rolls his tanks into with ear shot of Germany. They wont care, it will be like the Ukraine or Georgia all over again. America has not taste for war unless they are directly threatened or the is oil in it. Maybe the will be one in the future with China over who controls the shipping lanes and thus trade.

 

[the dza]

You think NATO or rather America will truly care when Putin rolls his tanks into with ear shot of Germany. They wont care, it will be like the Ukraine or Georgia all over again. America has not taste for war unless they are directly threatened or the is oil in it. Maybe the will be one in the future with China over who controls the shipping lanes and thus trade.

Ukraine and Georgia are not in NATO.

But the point is, Britain can't threaten EU countries in the east with removing our very limited military power from their disposal, because we are in NATO and so are they. Us being in the EU doesn't matter in that respect. It's NATO membership that obliges us to act, not EU membership. So in terms of Brexit negotiations, it's an empty threat for us to use our military as leverage.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Yeah I get what your saying but NATO has about as much authority as the IMF in my view and I think increasingly countries are not taking it seriously. I guess we will have to wait to see what will happen when Putin wakes up in a bad mood.

 

[the dza]

Yeah I get what your saying but NATO has about as much authority as the IMF in my view and I think increasingly countries are not taking it seriously. I guess we will have to wait to see what will happen when Putin wakes up in a bad mood.

I suppose that being in the EU, or co-operating with it militarily could be seen as an insurance policy against NATO going t1ts up (I don't think NATO is going to go t1ts up mind you). One of the reasons I voted to remain was that I think it's better when allies are tied together as a bulwark against Putin's Russia. Although I do think we have expanded both NATO and the EU east a little too much, which contributes to rising tensions.

 

[monkeybarry]

I find it very hard to imagine someone who retains employment considers Buzzfeed first when they try to think of a news source.

A few things to counter that;
1. The younger generation consider online sources as the focus
2. They also distrust the traditional media. Leaking to the standard press comes with baggage that don't yet exist with the likes of buzzfeed
3. Breitbart was a nothing media outlet.... until it wasn't
4. "Retain employment"?!?! Haha! You try getting sacked for the civil service.....it's less work to stay employed.

 

[the dza]

@scaramanga might like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...eople-more-likely-to-be-rightwing-study-finds

It is a finding unlikely to prove popular with Guardian readers, but a study has concluded that attractive people are more likely to be rightwing.

Previous research has found that those who are good-looking are generally treated better, achieve higher social status and earn more money, leading them to see the world as a just and fair place.

Now an American study published in the Journal of Public Economics based on comparing multiple surveys has concluded that the attractiveness of a person can correlate with their political beliefs.

The authors, Rolfe Daus Peterson of Susquehanna University and Carl L Palmer of Illinois State University, wrote: “Controlling for socioeconomic status, we found that more attractive individuals are more likely to report higher levels of political efficacy, identify as conservative and identify as Republican.”

 

[Gutter Boy]

That seems logical to me. When you are winning at life, you want to preserve things. When you are losing, you want to change them.

As much as people think money is the currency of life, it's actually reproduction-ability (though for men money is a useful tool for that).

 

[scaramanga]

@scaramanga might like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...eople-more-likely-to-be-rightwing-study-finds

It is a finding unlikely to prove popular with Guardian readers, but a study has concluded that attractive people are more likely to be rightwing.

Previous research has found that those who are good-looking are generally treated better, achieve higher social status and earn more money, leading them to see the world as a just and fair place.

Now an American study published in the Journal of Public Economics based on comparing multiple surveys has concluded that the attractiveness of a person can correlate with their political beliefs.

The authors, Rolfe Daus Peterson of Susquehanna University and Carl L Palmer of Illinois State University, wrote: “Controlling for socioeconomic status, we found that more attractive individuals are more likely to report higher levels of political efficacy, identify as conservative and identify as Republican.”

I do sometimes wonder if there's more to life than being really, really ridiculously good-looking.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

That seems logical to me. When you are winning at life, you want to preserve things. When you are losing, you want to change them.

As much as people think money is the currency of life, it's actually reproduction-ability (though for men money is a useful tool for that).

Well i am stunningly beautiful but i would like to see a different England. All school meals should be vegan. Fast food restsurants should all be shut.

Children should be learning Chinese not French. What is the point of learning French.

 

[DTA]

Well i am stunningly beautiful but i would like to see a different England. All school meals should be vegan. Fast food restsurants should all be shut.

Children should be learning Chinese not French. What is the point of learning French.

They are interesting ideas.

 

[scaramanga]

Well i am stunningly beautiful but i would like to see a different England. All school meals should be vegan. Fast food restsurants should all be shut.

Children should be learning Chinese not French. What is the point of learning French.

I get the Chinese thing but vegan? WTF? Vegans are clams and you know it. I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who doesn't eat bacon - their tastes are so weird they're probably into abusing kids and stuff.

That goes for people who cycle too. Not the poor ones who can't afford a car, the ones who do it voluntarily or worse, as a sport.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I get the Chinese thing but vegan? WTF? Vegans are clams and you know it. I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who doesn't eat bacon - their tastes are so weird they're probably into abusing kids and stuff.

That goes for people who cycle too. Not the poor ones who can't afford a car, the ones who do it voluntarily or worse, as a sport.

The vegan thing is a new pet passion of mine, the wife says it will pass but then she said that about the cross dressing.

No in all seriousness I support British farmers and will still eat meat, but after the first month of being on a complete plant based diet I will then drop it to being vegan 80% of the time. Can you imagine going out and not eating meat, you would have no friends left.

There are clear health benefits to eating a better and balanced diet, now I probably have more reasons then most to be interested in Health matters. But with an overstretched NHS whatever you think of the NHS surely we should be helping it by getting rid of health problems that can be avoided.

I forget the actual numbers but when smoking was banned in public the savings for the NHS were estimated to be huge. I think an enforced tax on sugar and moving the country towards a plant based diet with the occasional meat and fish would be great, peoples health would improve, school children would have higher concentration levels.

I have just brought some Limes, they of course do not come from this country but with the progress in vertical farming and improved efficiency of greenhouses we could be growing them here. Each city could with vertical skyscraper farms be looking to feed itself or as near as damn it. The dutch are leading the way on this.

Mandarin will with English be the language of this century and is more useful to children, all children should be made to do a 10 minute work out before a 40 minute lesson followed by a 20 minute break followed by a 40 minute lesson followed by a 20 minute work out and so on. It is proven that children are to restless a lot of the time to study and understand, saw a study in Scotland where they did this and the childrens educational standards rose sharply. Also 6 weeks school holidays should be banned.

They should have 1 week off every 7 weeks and any teacher training days should be in one of those weeks off. It would mean less homework and allow more time for children to be free, children should not be allowed to take mobile phones into school, we managed to do without them in my day.


When I come back on the train from Tottenham I am not glued to my phone I sit and think it is why I am a creative genius, to many children are glued to screens to sit and think and come up with new ideas.

I would have a tax for the NHS does not have to be an extra tax, but just on peoples wage slips they should see how much of their wage goes to keeping the NHS afloat and then maybe they would take more care and think about being Vegan some of the time.

This is the future as I have set out, I expect it to be followed.

 

[r-u-s-x]

The vegan thing is a new pet passion of mine, the wife says it will pass but then she said that about the cross dressing.

No in all seriousness I support British farmers and will still eat meat, but after the first month of being on a complete plant based diet I will then drop it to being vegan 80% of the time. Can you imagine going out and not eating meat, you would have no friends left.

There are clear health benefits to eating a better and balanced diet, now I probably have more reasons then most to be interested in Health matters. But with an overstretched NHS whatever you think of the NHS surely we should be helping it by getting rid of health problems that can be avoided.

I forget the actual numbers but when smoking was banned in public the savings for the NHS were estimated to be huge. I think an enforced tax on sugar and moving the country towards a plant based diet with the occasional meat and fish would be great, peoples health would improve, school children would have higher concentration levels.

I have just brought some Limes, they of course do not come from this country but with the progress in vertical farming and improved efficiency of greenhouses we could be growing them here. Each city could with vertical skyscraper farms be looking to feed itself or as near as damn it. The dutch are leading the way on this.

Mandarin will with English be the language of this century and is more useful to children, all children should be made to do a 10 minute work out before a 40 minute lesson followed by a 20 minute break followed by a 40 minute lesson followed by a 20 minute work out and so on. It is proven that children are to restless a lot of the time to study and understand, saw a study in Scotland where they did this and the childrens educational standards rose sharply. Also 6 weeks school holidays should be banned.

They should have 1 week off every 7 weeks and any teacher training days should be in one of those weeks off. It would mean less homework and allow more time for children to be free, children should not be allowed to take mobile phones into school, we managed to do without them in my day.


When I come back on the train from Tottenham I am not glued to my phone I sit and think it is why I am a creative genius, to many children are glued to screens to sit and think and come up with new ideas.

I would have a tax for the NHS does not have to be an extra tax, but just on peoples wage slips they should see how much of their wage goes to keeping the NHS afloat and then maybe they would take more care and think about being Vegan some of the time.

This is the future as I have set out, I expect it to be followed.

Heard it's the healthy who are the biggest strain on the state as they don't die soon enough and costs of looking after the old outweigh the costs of health care and early death for the unhealthy.

Heard this a few times although never checked the validity
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s

So it's your duty to get that second helping of chips to save the NHS...

(all this could be bollox but you have just had two portions of chips so don't worry about it).

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Heard it's the healthy who are the biggest strain on the state as they don't die soon enough and costs of looking after the old outweigh the costs of health care and early death for the unhealthy.

Heard this a few times although never checked the validity
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s

So it's your duty to get that second helping of chips to save the NHS...

(all this could be bollox but you have just had two portions of chips so don't worry about it).

Is a two fold thing, healthier people then a higher retirement age so more tax revenue. Maybe keep the fast food restaurants in Liverpool and Bradford as a way of cleansing the gene pool.