he does not represent Parliament and it is explicitly not the opinion of parliament.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
He is expressing a fairly commonly held opinion in parliament. I suspect that opinion will grow as more and more people realise what Grant has said.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
You are saying that a vote by the people is undemocratic? Okay.
All well and good rolling out catch phrase terms like neo-liberal globalisation. It doesn't mean anything in isolation. Within the term are all manner of complexities, with many many good things for people and society. Democracy is also very much part of of the neo-liberal reality, so to conflate the two - democracy against neoliberalism - is just the tip of this oversimplification.
It would be the elite saying, "you voted wrong - best 2 out of 3". Just like happened to Ireland in 2008: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty.
The whole essence of democracy is handing over power when you lose - the definition of democracy is something called the two turnover test. Anything else is how third world authoritarian leaders behave.
Also remember 85% of the population voted for explicitly Brexit manifestos in the last GE.
Neoliberlism is a free reign for rule by the corporations. It's fundamentally opposed to rule be the state - the thing pesky plebs are allowed to meddle in through disruptive irritations like elections.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Dunno. He's still a partner in the emerging markets fund he set up so I guess his personal interests are best served by investors balancing away from UK firms.
The point about JRM isn't just that he's a Leave campaigner, but that he's a loony who wants to roll back everything that has happened since the Enlightenment. The leavers who want to go back to 1972, one can reason with. Less so the ones with a hankering for the 1500s.
If I responded with the comment "That seems not to be the current opinion in parliament" it would have been more accurate than your response.
I'll revise my statement then.
It's the opinion held by those in parliament who know the full facts.
is it? what makes you say that only three or four MPs know the full facts?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
I think he wrote something in the Somerset Capital newsletter saying he advised people to move funds into non-UK assets.
Looks like he wasn't a very good fund manager, returning below average profits in a sector that has boomed:
As a darling of Britain’s Conservative party, Jacob Rees-Mogg’s stock is sky-high. But in his previous career as a fund manager, his returns were less than stellar. From 2003 to 2007, the 48-year-old MP and champion of Brexit was in charge of the Lloyd George Emerging Markets Fund, riding the commodities boom and a bull-run in Asian markets. Mr Rees-Mogg said that under his management, the fund saw assets under management grow from “a mere $50m to $5bn”. But a review of its performance over the period, using data from Thomson Reuters Lipper, shows that the fund trailed the MSCI Emerging Market Index, the benchmark for many emerging markets funds, in four of those five years. In 2006, for example, the Lloyd George Emerging Markets Fund rose 12.19 per cent, compared with 16.39 per cent growth for the MSCI index.
FT
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Because they're the ones that Grant has spoken to about it and have subsequently spoken to the press. I suspect there's a fair few more who didn't talk to the press. Based on what Grant has been saying there's probably a load who wouldn't want to talk to the press either as it would reveal the remain side to be a complete stitch up.
Seems more likely he is but hurt as they didn't say what he wanted them to say, the great trump "fake news" when you don't like the outcome. but as you were.
He was warning about this well in advance:
https://order-order.com/2018/02/01/...ury-pushing-government-towards-softer-brexit/
Worth bearing in mind who Grant represents too.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Whats going on with the world where we can't lear at women that want to be leared at?
The worlds gone bonkers, full of kn0b heads who throw down your throat they are a Vegan when its basically a fudging dietary preference the same as mine is to be a fat cun7, I dont go on social media telling everyone how great my diet is and suits me, it is what it is.
The world is a funny place that the further we move down the line we are being brainwashed on how to think about everything.
The worlds gone bonkers, full of kn0b heads who throw down your throat they are a Vegan when its basically a fudging dietary preference the same as mine is to be a fat cun7, I dont go on social media telling everyone how great my diet is and suits me, it is what it is.
The world is a funny place that the further we move down the line we are being brainwashed on how to think about everything.
it has been confirmed that he Baker lied (sorry misremembered) in this case though.
There is a huge difference between saying the Treasury are pushing for a softer Brexit and saying they are fixing an economic model to make this case.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Yeah, this. Almost all girls like The Owl and the Pussycat. And private planes.
According to the Spectator he wasn't the only one to have misremembered precisely the same thing. That would suggest it's a bit more likely that they're backing down now in order to keep their jobs wouldn't it?
There is audio, it's the reason he backed down.
The fact others misremembered precisely the same thing would suggest a bit more likely that there may be an agenda.
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SpurMeUp
Les Howe
My understanding of democracy is that voting is not a one-off. The world changes, realities change, and voting is a lifelong right in adulthood within a democracy. It's not just the elite that want a new vote but many 'on the ground' and its a mainstay of democracy that voting continues. Especially on something so complex and transient. Saying you can not vote ever again on this issue is a greater application of an elite constraiting popular up to date expression. Newspaper owners such as the Telegraph, Sun, etc have backed Leave, while rich individuals funded the Leave campaign. Almost everyone of them a UK tax avoider! In short an elite of Brexit backers who don’t pay fair taxes. I wonder why they want a low tax non-EU state that favours the wealthy?
I don't agree that 85% of the population voted for Brexit at the last General Election. There is so much inaccuracy in that statement. The converse is probably a more balanced representation: the government sought to strengthen its mandate to deliver Brexit by calling an Election. It actually reduced its mandate narrowly avoiding defeat. Therefore it reduced its mandate to deliver a hard Brexit. At the referendum only a third of the UK voted to leave the EU. A majority of the UK did not. Whether people vote or not, their interests must be represented.
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Europhobes had to wait 40 years for their second referendum. This second one was always a 'for a generation' decision.
Labour's manifesto was, and their leadership is, highly pro-Brexit. The pro-EU parties (Libs, Green and SNP) all suffered major vote loses in the GE, while the two pro-Brexit parties got record shares of the vote.
Labour's manifesto was, and their leadership is, highly pro-Brexit. The pro-EU parties (Libs, Green and SNP) all suffered major vote loses in the GE, while the two pro-Brexit parties got record shares of the vote.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Douglas Carswell, the sole Ukip MP during the referendum, was raised in Uganda; Arron Banks, who bankrolled Ukip and the xenophobic Leave.EU campaign, spent his childhood in South Africa, where his father ran sugar estates, as well as in Kenya, Ghana and Somalia; Henry Bolton, the current head of Ukip, was born and raised partly in Kenya; Robert Oxley, head of media for Vote Leave, has strong family ties to Zimbabwe. One can only speculate about how much impact these formative years had on their political outlook, (Carswell attributes his libertarianism to Idi Amin’s “arbitrary rule”) but it would be odd to conclude they didn’t have any.
This awakening would be funny (abroad they find it hilarious) if it were not so consequential. Johnson told the Commons the EU27 could “go whistle” for an extortionate Brexit bill. They whistled; now we will cough, to the tune of £35-40bn.
During her 2017 election campaign, Theresa May, channelling her inner Thatcher, boasted about being a “bloody difficult woman”. “The next man to find that out will be Jean-Claude Juncker,” she claimed. In fact Juncker, the president of the European commission, and his team have found May more overwhelmed and befuddled than overwhelming and belligerent. After one Downing Street dinner, European negotiators concluded that she “does not live on planet Mars but rather in a galaxy very far away”.
In a recent private meeting between May and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, the two leaders reportedly found themselves in a tragicomic conversational loop. May kept telling Merkel: “Make me an offer.” To which Merkel would reply: “But you’re leaving – we don’t have to make you an offer. Come on, what do you want?” To which May would retort: “Make me an offer.”
A change of leader won’t make this right. Lacking authority and coherence, haemorrhaging relevance and credibility, May is a faithful reflection not only of her government but of the country at this moment. Brexiteers have ostensibly got what they want: Brexit. They assumed we could dictate the terms; we can’t. They assumed we could just walk away; we can’t. They had no more plans for leaving than a dog chasing a car has to drive it. They are now finding out how little sovereignty means for a country the size of Britain in a neoliberal globalised economy beyond blue passports (which we could have had anyway). What we need isn’t a change of leader but a change of direction.
May is no more personally to blame for the mess we are in with Europe than Anthony Eden was for the mess with the 1956 Suez crisis – which provides a more salient parallel for Britain than the second world war. It took Britain and France overplaying their hand, in punishing Egypt for seizing the Suez canal from colonial control and nationalising it, to realise their imperial influence had been eclipsed by the US and was now in decline.
“France and England will never be powers comparable to the United States,” the West German chancellor at the time, Konrad Adenauer, told the French foreign minister. “Not Germany either. There remains to them only one way of playing a decisive role in the world: that is to unite Europe … We have no time to waste; Europe will be your revenge.”
Once again, Britain has overplayed its hand. Preferring to live in the past rather than learn from it, we find ourselves diminished in the present and clueless about the future.
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Obviously a Guardian perspective. But it is interesting that a lot of the leaders of the Leave campaign grew up as privileged ex-pats. Add the deluded Daniel Hannon to the list above. They all crave a UK that they saw from afar through a prism of tea served by servants, Grand Britannia and love for the motherland.
This awakening would be funny (abroad they find it hilarious) if it were not so consequential. Johnson told the Commons the EU27 could “go whistle” for an extortionate Brexit bill. They whistled; now we will cough, to the tune of £35-40bn.
During her 2017 election campaign, Theresa May, channelling her inner Thatcher, boasted about being a “bloody difficult woman”. “The next man to find that out will be Jean-Claude Juncker,” she claimed. In fact Juncker, the president of the European commission, and his team have found May more overwhelmed and befuddled than overwhelming and belligerent. After one Downing Street dinner, European negotiators concluded that she “does not live on planet Mars but rather in a galaxy very far away”.
In a recent private meeting between May and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, the two leaders reportedly found themselves in a tragicomic conversational loop. May kept telling Merkel: “Make me an offer.” To which Merkel would reply: “But you’re leaving – we don’t have to make you an offer. Come on, what do you want?” To which May would retort: “Make me an offer.”
A change of leader won’t make this right. Lacking authority and coherence, haemorrhaging relevance and credibility, May is a faithful reflection not only of her government but of the country at this moment. Brexiteers have ostensibly got what they want: Brexit. They assumed we could dictate the terms; we can’t. They assumed we could just walk away; we can’t. They had no more plans for leaving than a dog chasing a car has to drive it. They are now finding out how little sovereignty means for a country the size of Britain in a neoliberal globalised economy beyond blue passports (which we could have had anyway). What we need isn’t a change of leader but a change of direction.
May is no more personally to blame for the mess we are in with Europe than Anthony Eden was for the mess with the 1956 Suez crisis – which provides a more salient parallel for Britain than the second world war. It took Britain and France overplaying their hand, in punishing Egypt for seizing the Suez canal from colonial control and nationalising it, to realise their imperial influence had been eclipsed by the US and was now in decline.
“France and England will never be powers comparable to the United States,” the West German chancellor at the time, Konrad Adenauer, told the French foreign minister. “Not Germany either. There remains to them only one way of playing a decisive role in the world: that is to unite Europe … We have no time to waste; Europe will be your revenge.”
Once again, Britain has overplayed its hand. Preferring to live in the past rather than learn from it, we find ourselves diminished in the present and clueless about the future.
--------------------
Obviously a Guardian perspective. But it is interesting that a lot of the leaders of the Leave campaign grew up as privileged ex-pats. Add the deluded Daniel Hannon to the list above. They all crave a UK that they saw from afar through a prism of tea served by servants, Grand Britannia and love for the motherland.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Apparently it’s time to make a decision: do we want the UK in or out of the EU Customs Union?
What would you choose?
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
What would you choose?
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app