Politics, politics, politics

[DTA]

But this isn't about economics, it's about Brexit
(I mean that partly facetiously and partly correctly in context)

The fact that you can do both at the same time accurately...shows how much trouble we are in

 

[SpurMeUp]

Theresa May's Brexit team is 'mad, ludicrous and clueless about the economy,' ex-trade minister claim


A former treasury minister has launched an extraordinary attack on Theresa May's pro-Brexit cabinet members, branding them "clueless" about the economy, "mad" and "ludicrous," as he accused the prime minister of dragging her heels in trade talks with China.

Lord O'Neill, who pushed for stronger trade ties with Beijing while he served in the Treasury under George Osborne, dismissed Theresa May's Brexit strategy as "fantasy" and described Boris Johnson as "our ludicrous foreign minister."

Speaking to a German newspaper, he also claimed Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, and Mr Johnson were wasting time by making trips to New Zealand to talk post-Brexit trade instead of focusing on negotiations with China.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-team-mad-ludicrous-clueless-economy-former/

 

[Gutter Boy]

I mentioned this months ago as a suggestion, but seems we are actually exploring joining the TPP: https://www.ft.com/content/73943036-efa9-11e7-b220-857e26d1aca4


UK looks to join Pacific trade group after Brexit

Britain has held informal talks about joining a flagship Pacific trade group, in an audacious bid to kick-start exports after Brexit.

The proposal, being developed by Liam Fox’s Department for International Trade, would make the UK the first member of the Trans-Pacific Partnership that does not border the Pacific Ocean or the South China Sea.

It would help to reinvigorate TPP, a key initiative of Barack Obama’s administration that appeared fatally wounded when Donald Trump withdrew the US last January.

The 11 remaining members, including Australia, Japan and Mexico, agreed in November to continue with a successor deal, the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership.

The UK discussions to join the distant trade group that has lost its biggest member come as Mr Fox embarks on a three-day trip to try and woo Chinese business.

Greg Hands, a UK trade minister, said there was no geographical restriction on Britain joining TPP. “Nothing is excluded in all of this,” he told the Financial Times. “With these kind of plurilateral relationships, there doesn’t have to be any geographical restriction.”

However, UK accession would almost certainly have to wait until TPP itself has been revised, and the UK has agreed its post-Brexit relationship with the EU.

The UK’s trade relationship with TPP countries pales in comparison to its existing one with fellow EU members or the US.

Japan, by far the largest economy in the TPP, accounted for just 1.6 per cent of the UK’s goods exports in 2016, according to MIT’s Observatory of Economic Complexity, which compiles global trade data.

All 11 TPP countries combined accounted for less than 8 per cent of UK goods exported last year while in comparison Germany alone accounted for 11 per cent.

The same applies to UK exports of financial and other services. In the first half of last year the UK exported almost £1.7bn in services to Japan — about a tenth of the £16.6bn that the UK service industries exported to the US.

Officials from TPP countries say they expect to sign the revised deal early in 2018 but are now trying to resolve some issues raised by Canada. One said it was “way too soon” to discuss UK accession before a Brexit deal.

When the TPP was initially concluded in 2015, it was envisaged as a “platform for regional economic integration” rather than a group that could incorporate European members. However, some TPP countries now welcome the idea of having another G7 economy as a member. British officials have floated the idea in meetings with counterparts from Australia, New Zealand and other TPP countries in recent months.

Labour criticised the government’s interest in TPP, saying that it should focus closer to home, in particular on Britain’s “key future trading arrangement” with the EU. “Of course [TPP] could be helpful but it is not the main event, and at the moment the government is making a hash of that,” said Barry Gardiner, the shadow trade secretary.

“This smacks of desperation,” said Tim Farron, former Lib Dem leader. “These people want us to leave a market on our doorstep and join a different, smaller one on the other side of the world. It’s all pie in sky thinking.”

Legally, the UK cannot sign trade deals before it leaves the EU, scheduled for March 2019. Joining TPP could be a less protracted process than negotiating individual trade deals with the member countries, but the trade department could decide to pursue bilateral deals instead. Much of its work is focused on attracting direct investment to the UK.

TPP would cut tariffs on a range of goods, including agricultural products, and services. It was designed to increase American influence in Asia, but both Mr Trump and his former adversary Hillary Clinton criticised the deal for its potential impact on blue-collar jobs.

The UK cabinet has yet to discuss Britain’s potential membership of TPP. Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said in December that Parliament would have an effective veto over any trade deal.

 

[the dza]

How many failures is Jeremy Hunt allowed to oversee before he is sacked?

He gives some lame apology this morning; where did this culture of "well I've said sorry so everything is ok now" come from? He should be sacked. He is failing at his job and it is too important to continually phuck up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b05efedfbd6ca2#block-5a4cc02ce4b05efedfbd6ca2

The British Medical Association has been tweeting about the situation in the NHS.

The BMA (@TheBMA)
Situation in our A&Es is symptomatic of pressures across whole system. Hospitals are at capacity, GP surgeries full, and a shortage of social and community care means many who no longer need to be in hospital can’t be discharged - there's nowhere for them to go! #NHSCrisis

January 3, 2018
The BMA (@TheBMA)
Short-term fixes will only get us so far. Each winter the pressure on the NHS worsens, and politicians are not taking the long-term view needed to ensure the NHS can keep up with rising demand #NHSCrisis

January 3, 2018
The BMA (@TheBMA)
We have to look at NHS funding, which is well below what other comparable European countries spend, to ensure the NHS can deal with the pressures it faces year in, year out, but which are compounded during winter. Read the full statement from @docanthea https://t.co/FPkWqLSFuE

January 3, 2018

 

[Gutter Boy]

How many failures is Jeremy Hunt allowed to oversee before he is sacked?

He gives some lame apology this morning; where did this culture of "well I've said sorry so everything is ok now" come from? He should be sacked. He is failing at his job and it is too important to continually phuck up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b05efedfbd6ca2#block-5a4cc02ce4b05efedfbd6ca2

The British Medical Association has been tweeting about the situation in the NHS.

The BMA (@TheBMA)
Situation in our A&Es is symptomatic of pressures across whole system. Hospitals are at capacity, GP surgeries full, and a shortage of social and community care means many who no longer need to be in hospital can’t be discharged - there's nowhere for them to go! #NHSCrisis

January 3, 2018
The BMA (@TheBMA)
Short-term fixes will only get us so far. Each winter the pressure on the NHS worsens, and politicians are not taking the long-term view needed to ensure the NHS can keep up with rising demand #NHSCrisis

January 3, 2018
The BMA (@TheBMA)
We have to look at NHS funding, which is well below what other comparable European countries spend, to ensure the NHS can deal with the pressures it faces year in, year out, but which are compounded during winter. Read the full statement from @docanthea https://t.co/FPkWqLSFuE

January 3, 2018

Is he doing a bad job? Or is he doing an impossible job not too badly?

The biggest flaw with the NHS is that it has become some sacrosanct myth that you can't criticise. It was designed for the 1940s, not the 2010s. The whole thing needs binning and starting again - it's too reactive and is just a place you go to die, not to be treated.

The new principles it should be built on are:

- Social health insurance instead of general taxation funding (to detach it from politics and get big business contributing to the costs much more)
- Compulsory comprehensive annual health checks for everyone
- Drug treatment reduction targets (replacement by therapies, diet, exercise and health supplements)
- No PPPs

 

[Gutter Boy]

Also, the unspoken thing, is that this week is always the worst in the year for the NHS because of all the granny dumping that goes on over Christmas. According to medics I know, this has apparently become a really big thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granny_dumping

 

[the dza]

Is he doing a bad job? Or is he doing an impossible job not too badly?

The biggest flaw with the NHS is that it has become some sacrosanct myth that you can't criticise. It was designed for the 1940s, not the 2010s. The whole thing needs binning and starting again - it's too reactive and is just a place you go to die, not to be treated.

The new principles it should be built on are:

- Social health insurance instead of general taxation funding (to detach it from politics and get big business contributing to the costs much more)
- Compulsory comprehensive annual health checks for everyone
- Drug treatment reduction targets (replacement by therapies, diet, exercise and health supplements)
- No PPPs

Until the government do 2 things, then you can stop with the nonsense that it needs binning. 1. Fund it to the comparable level that other countries fund their health services to. 2. Stop giving tax breaks to people who don't need them whilst cutting social programs for people who do (in the case of social care, this puts direct pressure on the NHS).

Hunt oversaw the first doctors strike in 40 years and has failed to get enough staff into training and enough investment into the areas that need it. He didn't just take the job yesterday, he's been there since 2012!

You are such an apologist for this government, typical of what is left of the people who vote Lib Dem.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Until the government do 2 things, then you can stop with the nonsense that it needs binning. 1. Fund it to the comparable level that other countries fund their health services to. 2. Stop giving tax breaks to people who don't need them whilst cutting social programs for people who do (in the case of social care, this puts direct pressure on the NHS).

Hunt oversaw the first doctors strike in 40 years and has failed to get enough staff into training and enough investment into the areas that need it. He didn't just take the job yesterday, he's been there since 2012!

You are such an apologist for this government, typical of what is left of the people who vote Lib Dem.

There's no point funding it till it is reformed. All the money now just goes to big pharmas. Pro-activity and wellbeing need to be incentivised instead. Prevention instead of cures.

My proposals would increase funding, but by shifting the burden off taxpayers and onto employers (more like how pensions work).

I'm not an apologist for Hunt, I'm just saying its an impossible job because of some bizarre emotional attachment people have to something that is actually killing them, which means no-one will be allowed to solve the issues.

 

[the dza]

There's no point funding it till it is reformed. All the money now just goes to big pharmas. Pro-activity and wellbeing need to be incentivised instead. Prevention instead of cures.

My proposals would increase funding, but by shifting the burden off taxpayers and onto employers (more like how pensions work).

I'm not an apologist for Hunt, I'm just saying its an impossible job because of some bizarre emotional attachment people have to something that is actually killing them, which means no-one will be allowed to solve the issues.

The money is the problem, the rest of what you are saying is largely right-wing talking points. (not fit for purpose, only works 50 years ago etc. -- this is the mantra of those on the far right (economically) who want to see a privatised health service).

Of course prevention is better than cure, get people active etc. etc. but you do that alongside properly funding the NHS and social care. Previous Labour governments had us at European Averages for funding and the NHS was doing well (not perfect, nothing is), The Tories have taken us below those levels, whilst crushing services provided by local authorities by cutting funding.

Hunt, as much as anyone in the Tory party, wants to see the privatisation of the NHS and co-authored a book to that effect. https://whatwouldvirchowdo.wordpres...ok-and-yes-he-does-want-to-privatise-the-nhs/

Hunt's ideology is what drives his phuck ups re. The NHS. Of course, like most of them, he hates state-funding unless it comes to his expenses -- all swept under the carpet as he re-paid some of the money after being caught fiddling them.

1000's of operations cancelled because the Tory Government don't want to fund the NHS properly. They could do, but they don't want to. Some of the more sane Tories know the score.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0379a4747748e#block-5a4c93d0e4b0379a4747748e

Wollaston said the NHS was underfunded.


Certainly what we have is a system that is running at absolutely full stretch across both health and social care. And, despite all the planning that we’ve heard about, I’m afraid there are serious issues with capacity, far too many bed closures that have happened, and probably not enough money that has gone in over a number of years now to keep up with the sheer scale of the increase in demand and complexity.


And when it was put to her that people who have had operations cancelled would describe what is happening as a crisis, she replied: “Of course you would.”

 

[Gutter Boy]

The money is the problem, the rest of what you are saying is largely right-wing talking points. (not fit for purpose, only works 50 years ago etc. -- this is the mantra of those on the far right (economically) who want to see a privatised health service).

Of course prevention is better than cure, get people active etc. etc. but you do that alongside properly funding the NHS and social care. Previous Labour governments had us at European Averages for funding and the NHS was doing well (not perfect, nothing is), The Tories have taken us below those levels, whilst crushing services provided by local authorities by cutting funding.

Hunt, as much as anyone in the Tory party, wants to see the privatisation of the NHS and co-authored a book to that effect. https://whatwouldvirchowdo.wordpres...ok-and-yes-he-does-want-to-privatise-the-nhs/

Hunt's ideology is what drives his phuck ups re. The NHS. Of course, like most of them, he hates state-funding unless it comes to his expenses -- all swept under the carpet as he re-paid some of the money after being caught fiddling them.

1000's of operations cancelled because the Tory Government don't want to fund the NHS properly. They could do, but they don't want to. Some of the more sane Tories know the score.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0379a4747748e#block-5a4c93d0e4b0379a4747748e

Wollaston said the NHS was underfunded.


Certainly what we have is a system that is running at absolutely full stretch across both health and social care. And, despite all the planning that we’ve heard about, I’m afraid there are serious issues with capacity, far too many bed closures that have happened, and probably not enough money that has gone in over a number of years now to keep up with the sheer scale of the increase in demand and complexity.


And when it was put to her that people who have had operations cancelled would describe what is happening as a crisis, she replied: “Of course you would.”

My critique is both anti-capitalist (too much money haemorrhaging into the private sector) and anti-statist (the incentives are to expand and preserve the unit, not serve the community). Neither works. I'd like us to go more like the German system on this.

 

[the dza]

My critique is both anti-capitalist (too much money haemorrhaging into the private sector) and anti-statist (the incentives are to expand and preserve the unit, not serve the community). Neither works. I'd like us to go more like the German system on this.

There are pros and cons with different healthcare systems, but the NHS is perfectly viable when it is funded at the proper levels (say, the European Averages). The shortcomings in the NHS under a Tory government will always come back to the fact that they don't fund it properly, as many Tory politicians are ideologically opposed to it.

Hunt is not making the best of a bad job, he is doing a bad job.

 

[monkeybarry]

Jeremy Hunt is doing his job brilliantly and the electorate gave him the mandate to do so.

 

[milo]

This is very good

https://twitter.com/x/status/948494233085861888

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I know a few people working in the NHS, in hospitals/trusts but not as Doctors/Nurses etc.

The biggest issue there is not necessarily the budget, its the use of money and the many (many!) layers of management.

It is the cliched public sector thing. Managers managing managers all the way to the bottom. Managers getting cushy bonuses and payrises while there is no money for actual workers. Managers not actually doing anything, just making sure brick rolls downhill and doesnt stop at them.

And thats without trusts ripping each other off. A friend working down near Brighton got a message from his boss, who had been sent a spreadsheet/dashboard/MI thing from another trust. They were offering it to them for £20k. My mate took one look and found it was terribly designed recorded macro flimflam and informed the boss he could do better himself. Which he did by the end of that morning. The boss was naturally happy - but the point was £20k for a fudging spreadsheet! From one trust to another!

The whole thing needs gutting, organising and streamlining, before it needs more money.

More money in at the top right now will make little change on the front lines.

 

[the dza]

I know a few people working in the NHS, in hospitals/trusts but not as Doctors/Nurses etc.

The biggest issue there is not necessarily the budget, its the use of money and the many (many!) layers of management.

It is the cliched public sector thing. Managers managing managers all the way to the bottom. Managers getting cushy bonuses and payrises while there is no money for actual workers. Managers not actually doing anything, just making sure brick rolls downhill and doesnt stop at them.

And thats without trusts ripping each other off. A friend working down near Brighton got a message from his boss, who had been sent a spreadsheet/dashboard/MI thing from another trust. They were offering it to them for £20k. My mate took one look and found it was terribly designed recorded macro flimflam and informed the boss he could do better himself. Which he did by the end of that morning. The boss was naturally happy - but the point was £20k for a fudging spreadsheet! From one trust to another!

The whole thing needs gutting, organising and streamlining, before it needs more money.

More money in at the top right now will make little change on the front lines.

There will never be a perfect healthcare system and there are plenty of improvements to be made in the NHS.

But the last line of your post isn't correct, imo. The NHS does perform better when it is funded better, the last Labour government showed this. Were there still problems? Yes. Could the money have been spent more efficiently? Yes, most certainly. But funding DOES make a difference on the front line.

According to the IFS, between 2009-10 and 2015-16, spending on UK public health grew in real terms by an average of 1.3% per year. But between 1955-56 and 2015-16, the average spending growth was 4.1% per year.

That's a big difference -- the coalition (Tory) government presided over the lowest 5-year spending average since records began. You add that to an ageing population and £6Billion in cuts to social care budgets, resulting in even more people ending up using A+E and going to hospital and you have what many healthcare professionals are describing as an unprecedented crisis, even though this winter has been nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Put it this way, for every £100 put in now, probably £20 gets to where it counts.

Actually properly reform and run the NHS and its more like £60-70.

Im not saying we shouldnt put more money in. Im saying we should fix it first, so that the extra money goes a lot further.

 

[the dza]

Put it this way, for every £100 put in now, probably £20 gets to where it counts.

Actually properly reform and run the NHS and its more like £60-70.

Im not saying we shouldnt put more money in. Im saying we should fix it first, so that the extra money goes a lot further.

I think both things need to happen; the money, even with the organisation remaining the same, helps to avert short-term disasters. Spending it more efficiently is a continual process over the long-term. The "£20 getting to where it counts" is needed right now. We shouldn't let it wither away and then decide to fix it, the government can both fund it properly and oversee more efficient spending at the same time.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree. Id strip it down to its bones right now and rebuild it appropriately before just pouring money in to be wasted in the hope 20% counts for something.

Pouring more money in, good money after bad, just pushes the real work back. Its a foolish option IMO. It needs major surgery before investment can really pay off.

 

[the dza]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree. Id strip it down to its bones right now and rebuild it appropriately before just pouring money in to be wasted in the hope 20% counts for something.

Pouring more money in, good money after bad, just pushes the real work back. Its a foolish option IMO. It needs major surgery before investment can really pay off.

And how many people die in the meantime? Are you happy for your wife/kids/parents to not get the care they need for the sake of "jam tomorrow"? Or maybe someone elses wife/kids/parents? Because that's the reality of underfunding the NHS coupled with cuts to social care.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

And does that £20 really make such a difference? Or would fundamental improvement right now be better for the longevity of the service?

Thankfully the worst we have had to suffer from the NHS is a long wait at the hospital, the actual care was excellent. Nothing deadly about it, rather it was inconvenient which I certainly dont begrudge.