Politics, politics, politics

[r-u-s-x]

I'm not advocating pure capitalism, I just don't think supranational bodies are required for consumer protection. There are plenty of countries around the world who have the standards they want without being in the EU.

In terms of imports, that's something that should be down to consumer choice.

If you don't like a product you have the option of speaking to your MP to make your case or standing yourself and making the difference. If our public cares enough it will happen.

You buying from a French company who pumps lead into the air would effect me. You buying form a dictator that increases asylum seekers in the UK effects me. This is the most obvious instances without any morality involved.

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[scaramanga]

You buying from a French company who pumps lead into the air would effect me. You buying form a dictator that increases asylum seekers in the UK effects me. This is the most obvious instances without any morality involved.

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I'm fairly sure all of the other hundreds of countries that are not in the EU have their own methods of dealing with this.

Importantly, they are the ones who decide what suits their country, not what suits German lobbyists or workshy French

 

[r-u-s-x]

I'm fairly sure all of the other hundreds of countries that are not in the EU have their own methods of dealing with this.

Importantly, they are the ones who decide what suits their country, not what suits German lobbyists or workshy French

I am talking about UK laws and regulations to stop you buying imports that negatively impact those in the UK. Consumer choice is incapable of doing that, regulation or taxation is the only way.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I'm fairly sure all of the other hundreds of countries that are not in the EU have their own methods of dealing with this.

Importantly, they are the ones who decide what suits their country, not what suits German lobbyists or workshy French

*workshy French with higher productivity to underskilled British.

 

[scaramanga]

I am talking about UK laws and regulations to stop you buying imports that negatively impact those in the UK. Consumer choice is incapable of doing that, regulation or taxation is the only way.

Which are in place all over the world without a need for "ever closer union"

 

[scaramanga]

*workshy French with higher productivity to underskilled British.

An easy task when all the rules are bent in your favour.

 

[r-u-s-x]

An easy task when all the rules are bent in your favour.

Care to elaborate,
Prevailing wisdom is that more job security leads to more training, more skills, higher productivity but higher unemployment. We have low unemployment but McWorkers leading to a lot lower productivity than our peers.

If you have another opinion please share along with the study as would love to read it.

 

[scaramanga]

Care to elaborate,
Prevailing wisdom is that more job security leads to more training, more skills, higher productivity but higher unemployment. We have low unemployment but McWorkers leading to a lot lower productivity than our peers.

If you have another opinion please share along with the study as would love to read it.

There's a McKinsey study I no longer have access to summarised here:
https://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/europe/why-is-labor-productivity-in-the-united-kingdom-so-low

There was a piece in the Grauniad not too long ago about how a service-based industry is appraised incorrectly by such a basic measure with no nuance, amongst other things.

There's very low unemployment in the UK and that's been the case for some time. When unemployment is this low, it becomes very difficult to employ good people and inefficient staff hold their jobs longer. This one is personal experience.

Minimum wage makes it very difficult to differentiate wages and attract better staff at the manual end of the scale. Meaning more people are required to perform the same tasks and/or management time is taken up instructing them how to complete simple tasks. Also personal experience.

If job security and all that fluffy lefty nonsense is the cause of productivity, why is the US so far ahead of the rest of the world? The closest thing we have to a complete lack of workers' rights in the Western world is storming ahead without comparison. I don't know a lot about the economy in Japan, but I know productivity is terrible and I'm fairly sure job stability is really high.

A minor factor I've seen floating around is the infrastructure issues we have here and I thoroughly agree with that. Try driving to Birmingham from anywhere in the South East without driving on the M25. You end up on what is apparently a major arterial route, which is only 2 lanes wide! Most of our major A roads are at least 2 lanes too small in each direction, the West section of the M25 needs at least 2 more lanes each way, the North and South Circulars both need a couple of lanes too. There are even sections of the M3 (a fairly major motorway) which are 2 lanes wide each way. I'm reasonably lucky, I can schedule all my lengthy phone calls for when I know I'll be in the car, but for some people that's just wasted hours every day.

Obviously education plays a big part and I've been fairly vocal in the past about the sorry state of our education system. Too many poor teachers bouncing around the system (this opinion is from teachers). Too much "deferred success". Forcing non-academic types to study subjects they will never comprehend instead of giving them job experience. Forcing academic kids to share classes with those who cannot and will not attain the required grades. Many classes are little more than an exercise in zoo keeping, leaving academic kids with no chance to show their ability and stretch themselves. Kids who were never cut out for school, let alone college or university ending up dragging themselves through a Sports Science degree because Tony Blair thought 50% of kids attending university sounded like a nice number without ever stopping to think of the consequences. I'm sure I could think of plenty more but it only makes me angry so I try not to.

 

[r-u-s-x]

There's a McKinsey study I no longer have access to summarised here:
https://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/europe/why-is-labor-productivity-in-the-united-kingdom-so-low

There was a piece in the Grauniad not too long ago about how a service-based industry is appraised incorrectly by such a basic measure with no nuance, amongst other things.

There's very low unemployment in the UK and that's been the case for some time. When unemployment is this low, it becomes very difficult to employ good people and inefficient staff hold their jobs longer. This one is personal experience.

Minimum wage makes it very difficult to differentiate wages and attract better staff at the manual end of the scale. Meaning more people are required to perform the same tasks and/or management time is taken up instructing them how to complete simple tasks. Also personal experience.

If job security and all that fluffy lefty nonsense is the cause of productivity, why is the US so far ahead of the rest of the world? The closest thing we have to a complete lack of workers' rights in the Western world is storming ahead without comparison. I don't know a lot about the economy in Japan, but I know productivity is terrible and I'm fairly sure job stability is really high.

A minor factor I've seen floating around is the infrastructure issues we have here and I thoroughly agree with that. Try driving to Birmingham from anywhere in the South East without driving on the M25. You end up on what is apparently a major arterial route, which is only 2 lanes wide! Most of our major A roads are at least 2 lanes too small in each direction, the West section of the M25 needs at least 2 more lanes each way, the North and South Circulars both need a couple of lanes too. There are even sections of the M3 (a fairly major motorway) which are 2 lanes wide each way. I'm reasonably lucky, I can schedule all my lengthy phone calls for when I know I'll be in the car, but for some people that's just wasted hours every day.

Obviously education plays a big part and I've been fairly vocal in the past about the sorry state of our education system. Too many poor teachers bouncing around the system (this opinion is from teachers). Too much "deferred success". Forcing non-academic types to study subjects they will never comprehend instead of giving them job experience. Forcing academic kids to share classes with those who cannot and will not attain the required grades. Many classes are little more than an exercise in zoo keeping, leaving academic kids with no chance to show their ability and stretch themselves. Kids who were never cut out for school, let alone college or university ending up dragging themselves through a Sports Science degree because Tony Blair thought 50% of kids attending university sounded like a nice number without ever stopping to think of the consequences. I'm sure I could think of plenty more but it only makes me angry so I try not to.

You are pointing to a guardian article as evidence that service based economies are not representative? Must remember in future when you outright dismiss the paper.

Are you using that summary in the McKinsey paper (1998) suggests that comparative free market UK is less efficient and more regulated than France? Would have thought you would argue against this conclusion that a socialist France would be more efficient and less regulated.

I am aware that Mcjobs manipulate unemployment numbers meaning we are less productive but this does not make the French workshy as their workers produce more, they also have minimum wage so we can discount that.

Why would a socialist French government be better placed to increase efficiency in their infrastructure over a more capitalist british and If they are how are the rules bent in their favour.

Not sure how the US productivity shows the French are bending the rules to be more productive than the UK, or is this a separate point? If so I look at the issues the US have vs the French and know which model I prefer.

 

[Baleforce]

The point isn’t that we need the EU for this, it’s that we need regulation on imports regardless, importers will still need to meet the guidelines of the applicable standards agencies before produce can be put on sale.

 

[SpurMeUp]

So France’s economy is larger than ours with the same population but people work less with higher productivity? And Germany sells huge amounts more goods to the rest of the world than we do.

Brexiteers, how the hell do these nations do this from within the EU with all the consumer protection regulation!!!?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Gutter Boy]

So France’s economy is larger than ours with the same population but people work less with higher productivity? And Germany sells huge amounts more goods to the rest of the world than we do.

Brexiteers, how the hell do these nations do this from within the EU with all the consumer protection regulation!!!?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

France has 4 times the landmass, and hence (as it is at similar longitude) natural resources. In theory their quality of life should be 4 times greater than ours. The overwhelming problem with Britain is overpopulation.

Transport infrastructure and schooling are obviously big issues too. 40 years of Reaganomics, plus FoM/social dumping, has disincentivised investment in these

Anthropologic studies show that the optimum working week for humans is 17 hours. We work best in intense bursts, punctuated by periods of chilling. The whole logic of 9-5 days is a fallacy. So less hours definitely does increase productivity.

 

[r-u-s-x]

France has 4 times the landmass, and hence (as it is at similar longitude) natural resources. In theory their quality of life should be 4 times greater than ours. The overwhelming problem with Britain is overpopulation.

Transport infrastructure and schooling are obviously big issues too. 40 years of Reaganomics, plus FoM/social dumping, has disincentivised investment in these

Anthropologic studies show that the optimum working week for humans is 17 hours. We work best in intense bursts, punctuated by periods of chilling. The whole logic of 9-5 days is a fallacy. So less hours definitely does increase productivity.

Do you even believe the first statement?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Do you even believe the first statement?

Absolutely. We have 660 people per square mile. The fourth most overpopulated place in Europe after Malta, Holland and Belgium. France only have 295 people per square mile. Much more space, much more resources to go round.

 

[DTA]

France has 4 times the landmass, and hence (as it is at similar longitude) natural resources. In theory their quality of life should be 4 times greater than ours. The overwhelming problem with Britain is overpopulation.

Transport infrastructure and schooling are obviously big issues too. 40 years of Reaganomics, plus FoM/social dumping, has disincentivised investment in these

Anthropologic studies show that the optimum working week for humans is 17 hours. We work best in intense bursts, punctuated by periods of chilling. The whole logic of 9-5 days is a fallacy. So less hours definitely does increase productivity.

UK is not overpopulated. You saying that France is four times bigger therefore has four times the resources is edging towards comedy... or perhaps tragedy.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Absolutely. We have 660 people per square mile. The fourth most overpopulated place in Europe after Malta, Holland and Belgium. France only have 295 people per square mile. Much more space, much more resources to go round.

That's not how economics works.

 

[Gutter Boy]

UK is not overpopulated. You saying that France is four times bigger therefore has four times the resources is edging towards comedy... or perhaps tragedy.

Overpopulation is slightly subjective. But we can't grow enough food or produce enough energy to sustain ourselves and only 14% of the country is still natural. To me that is major overpopulation.

4 times bigger = 4 x the agricultural land, 4 x the mineral resources, 4 x the wind/solar potential and 4 x the living space. What natural resources don't scale up? Obviously if France was a desert it would be different, but at the same longitude, it is comparable.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Overpopulation is slightly subjective. But we can't grow enough food or produce enough energy to sustain ourselves and only 14% of the country is still natural. To me that is major overpopulation.

4 times bigger = 4 x the agricultural land, 4 x the mineral resources, 4 x the wind/solar potential and 4 x the living space. What natural resources don't scale up? Obviously if France was a desert it would be different, but at the same longitude, it is comparable.

You came to that conclusion on your own?

 

[monkeybarry]

That's not how economics works.

But this isn't about economics, it's about Brexit
(I mean that partly facetiously and partly correctly in context)

 

[r-u-s-x]

Going to bed so....

Happy new year to you and yours xxz