nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
The UK has had years of newspaper stories about the EU. The print media made a discovery, while articles about trade deals were dull, Jonny foreigner dictating the shape of our bananas, appealed to our natural human, mild xenophobia and were funny and entertaining. The real work of the EU is seriously boring (work that the UK will now have to do creating a big Customs Department, a Trade Department, Medical, Aviation Regulator etc and did you know the EU bureaucracy is the size of Birmingham council?) But all of these bodies help facilitate trade and international cooperation. ...yet as you say, reality is not always important in a democratic vote. Its all about perceptions and how you get your message across (Leave were illegally funded by Trumps money man helping to get a their desired message out). Maybe the reason Remainers feel so upset at UKIP publishing images of lines of Turkish immigrants or the cash for the NHS claim is a) that it worked and b) if you look into it there is only a tenuous link to the the real work of the EU. But that work is not interesting, and never will be. How could Cameron or whoever was up there present the grey EU successfully, when faced with clever, well researched, emotive images of immigrants and hospitals?
I think this is fundamentally the issue with modern politics. I actually like detail, I l ike facts, and I like to make informed decisions.
I was begging for some of that during the referendum. People are fed flimflam and kept in the dark. They really shouldnt be.
I found those images offensive. And not because they were by they nature, but because it was a blatant "You fudging fools" up middle finger to the public they were served to.
For me, some common sense, some straight and factual talk, would have cut through all of the hogwash being pushed from all sides. Nobody even tried.
People dont know what the EU is? What it does? fudging tell them! Then they can make a proper decision. Cameron failed spectacularly there. And he wasn the only one.
You seem to have issue with us setting up our own Customs department, Im not sure why. I look at it as a necessity, rather than a burden, not sure what the big deal is. If we are to be independent of course we need such things. Is it a problem to have one?
The irony is, as with you, the EU doesn't adversely affect many people in the UK. Leaving the EU might though. Another irony is that Remoaners have been labelled with project fear, but there is a fear or distrust among Leavers of the foreign 'other', The foreign EU controlling things. Yet the EU conducts its works in our language, has many Brits working in it from all sides of the political spectrum, and things like the EU working time directive or laws on polluting etc, probably do protect most people in the UK.
This is where its back to principal. It doesnt matter to many if what you say is entirely correct, it matters that what we are involved in is not what we signed up to. It matters when huge mandate changes are essentially put through via the back door. It matters when when votes are re done until the desired result is found. That sort of thing sows distrust in an organisation that is already a different entity to that which we joined.
And, honestly, is that unfair?
How you weigh that against the good that comes from the EU is of course another matter and personal preference.
And I do sense a real binary line of thinking going on here (in general, I mean). Leaving means leaving. As if we will just put up a wall around our shores and never so much as glance at Europe again. Its weird.
If common sense ruled little would change in our trading and co-operative practices, its what would suit all sides.
Of course we have control of borders! What you on about? Have you come back from the EU and walked off the plane without showing your passport? We control our borders. We also have an opt out from Shengen so people who get a visa to visit the EU, can't visit the UK without applying directly to the UK for another visa. Just shows that you are spot on. Its all about perception. Not reality.
When a person from Europe can turn up, claim welfare, start a life and just "move in" without our being able to deny it, we do not have control of our borders. Effectively our state is taken out of our hands. And as you know, our welfare state is straining under a great burden.
No, Im not saying that is BECAUSE of immigration. However, with hundreds of thousands of people adding to an already huge population - it adds pressure to vital resources. And we can do nought about it. There are plenty of issues other than immigration around these services, I readily acknowledge.
And again, when talking immigration, people immediately turn binary. Who honestly thinks it will simply stop? Anyone? And who can honestly argue that being able to be selective in who we attract is a bad thing?
Incidentally, on immigration, I hate the whole double standard the EU membership brings. Mr French just drives over and settles down. Ive indian friends who have been through the process, and my GHod its horrific. Personally Id much prefer a single method that applies to all, fundamentally thats just fair. Ideally its simplified enough that its not too lengthly or horrific, but sturdy enough we can use it to our advantage.