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Politics, politics, politics

Grays_1890 said:
I'm not sure you give people enough credit? Voting out the EU was still a vote for Conservatives because they were still going to be in government and I would nver buy people voting out in hope to rid themselves of Cameron and then forcing another election, I am with Scara on this.

The vote was simple, vote in or out the EU and I everyone getting the vote only knew what it was like to be in the EU so its not inconceivable for half to think their circumstances were so bad that being out the EU might work for them, if not they lost little.
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I think that people's reasons for voting are a little more complicated than that.

From memory, the "Westminster establishment" was not specifically a vote against the Conservatives (although it was that too) but against an system that had resulted in parts of the country not benefiting from growth/investment and anger against successive governments for that.
 
milo said:
I think that people's reasons for voting are a little more complicated than that.

From memory, the "Westminster establishment" was not specifically a vote against the Conservatives (although it was that too) but against an system that had resulted in parts of the country not benefiting from growth/investment and anger against successive governments for that.
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It's how Nige framed it:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...tory-Nigel-Farage-tells-Trump-supporters.html
 
the dza said:
So there IS a "magic money tree" when it comes to bribes for votes in Parliament. £1Billion for ten MPs, bargain.
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£1b isn't very much. Levy probably wouldn't even sell Spurs for that. Northern Ireland only has the population of a medium-sized English county, so it's quite trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Scotland has been disproportionately over-funded and over-represented for decade. If anyone wants to see unfairness between the nations of the UK, look up the Barnett formula and the West Lothian question
 
scaramanga said:
I haven't heard that opinion from anyone yet.

I've heard a lot of reasons why people dislike the EU, but never that it was the establishment option.
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Really? It was a very popular narrative post election, one of the most common. Surprises me you have not heard it.
 
Gutter Boy said:
£1b isn't very much.
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As long as you and everybody else remembers to apply this thinking when it comes to Corbyn's Labour spending money, that's fine. The IFS said that Labour's proposed tax changes could raise £40billion whilst their spending commitments were £49billion. So that's a £9billion shortfall, but hey, we can find a billion here or there down the back of the sofa, so no problem. And maybe the tax changes would raise a little more and hey presto, all paid for. This is what will be reported in the Telegraph, right?

Also begs the question -- if they can afford to spend it and if Northern Ireland need it (as they almost certainly do as one of the UKs poorest regions) then why wasn't it being spent anyway?

It's a rhetorical question of course, the answer is that the Tories are an utterly disgusting political organisation.
 
the dza said:
As long as you and everybody else remembers to apply this thinking when it comes to Corbyn's Labour spending money, that's fine.

Also begs the question -- if they can afford to spend it and if Northern Ireland need it (as they almost certainly do as one of the UKs poorest regions) then why wasn't it being spent anyway?

It's a rhetorical question of course, the answer is that the Tories are an utterly disgusting political organisation.
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For context though, Corbyn's electoral bribe to students was £70b + £11b pa. And that was just one policy.

The Tories worst financial crime of late is wasting £37b on something that will be obsolete by the time it is finished (Hinkley Point).
 
Gutter Boy said:
For context though, Corbyn's electoral bribe to students was £70b + £11b pa. And that was just one policy.

The Tories worst financial crime of late is wasting £37b on something that will be obsolete by the time it is finished (Hinkley Point).
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The Student thing was nowhere near that high! HP beggars belief, which everybody now knows.
You do keep comparing road crashes to justify Tory failings.

Non of the above should go ahead, throw in that bloody stupid Carrier.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
For context though, Corbyn's electoral bribe to students was £70b + £11b pa. And that was just one policy.

The Tories worst financial crime of late is wasting £37b on something that will be obsolete by the time it is finished (Hinkley Point).
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that's not a bribe but a policy - its like saying £258bn spent on pensions is a bribe to older people or the NHS spend is a bribe to ill people.
 
the dza said:
Show me in the manifesto where that is the spending committent. Not for the first time, you are talking out of your hoop.
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It was in his interview in NME. He said they didn't have a policy on it because there wasn’t time between the announcement of the election and the publication of the manifesto, but that they would act to clear the debt of students who studied between 2010-17. That's what an awful lot of twentysomethings voted for.
 
Gutter Boy said:
It was in his interview in NME. He said they didn't have a policy on it because there wasn’t time between the announcement of the election and the publication of the manifesto, but that they would act to clear the debt of students who studied between 2010-17. That's what an awful lot of twentysomethings voted for.
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Right, there was no policy. It might be an aim, a good one at that imo and something they want to do. But not a manifesto commitment.
 
scaramanga said:
I've heard it from the media and remainers, I haven't heard it from anyone who actually voted Leave.
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I actually said much the same earlier, i have spoken read and listened to many who voted out and they all ( to a man/woman) said it was nothing to do with a " anti establishment" box.
 
Not tryin gto make light of it but most who would vote this way would not say "anti establishment" they don't think things through - I have come across loads who have said we need a change, this does not work for me, cant get any worse, I don't know why I voted leave etc. which in my opinion is anti establishment. I am very selective on FB etc and not on Twitter so not on my feed (justifying that I am not friends with chavs) but when looking at my mates who have chav friends (there are loads) on FB it is split between immigration and the above.
 
Gutter Boy said:
It was in his interview in NME. He said they didn't have a policy on it because there wasn’t time between the announcement of the election and the publication of the manifesto, but that they would act to clear the debt of students who studied between 2010-17. That's what an awful lot of twentysomethings voted for.
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And when questioned on sky news about how the immediate costs of this would be met shortly after the announcement, one of his suggestions was 'out of current taxation revenues', or words to that effect. Which I thought was an interesting response...
 
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