Politics, politics, politics

[milo]

Insist we'll only let Gibraltar be a topic, if Spanish claims over Ceuta and Melilla are included too

Or just a quick treaty with the Gibraltan government to convert its status from an overseas territory to crown dependency, therefore having to be treated the same way as the Channel Islands and Isle of Man.

That's not our call to make. The European Council set the rules for negotiation.

As far as I am aware, the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not disputed territories, so that doesn't stack up either. Although I believe that there is an agreement that means that Norway can buy it back from £1m if they want.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That's not our call to make. The European Council set the rules for negotiation.

As far as I am aware, the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not disputed territories, so that doesn't stack up either. Although I believe that there is an agreement that means that Norway can buy it back from £1m if they want.

It would change its status in international law, making it even more indivisible from the UK.

Dependent territories aren't in the EU either

 

[milo]

It would change its status in international law, making it even more indivisible from the UK.

Dependent territories aren't in the EU either

I think that a better approach would have been to cultivate support for our position amongst our European allies.

 

[scaramanga]

I think that a better approach would have been to cultivate support for our position amongst our European allies.

Why waste favours/bargaining position on something that we can end discussion in before we start?

 

[milo]

Why waste favours/bargaining position on something that we can end discussion in before we start?

I don't think that there is any chance of Gibraltar changing hands but this was entirely predictable, is an unnecessary distraction and we should have prepared the ground for it

 

[scaramanga]

I don't think that there is any chance of Gibraltar changing hands but this was entirely predictable, is an unnecessary distraction and we should have prepared the ground for it

Certainly don't disagree with that.

Probably should have had May out there on a visit in the last couple of months playing Thatcher then.

 

[milo]

Certainly don't disagree with that.

Probably should have had May out there on a visit in the last couple of months playing Thatcher then.

This government is clueless.

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/848631232472776704

 

[Baleforce]

m&s checkout girls?

 

[milo]

m&s checkout girls?

You just made Chich spill his custard

 

[Gutter Boy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/848505034602098689

 

[the dza]

Just a quick point on Gibraltar, Spain, UK and Nato; it is possible for NATO members to attack one another, see Greece and Turkey. But things can only go as far as the USA allows. Normally, I'd say the USA wouldn't let things go too far, but with Trump we can't know for sure. Any kind of war is highly unlikely though, Greece and Turkey is a different situation and we are one of the founder nations of NATO and the 2nd most important member, so I don't see us going to war with a fellow member.

In any case, there doesn't seem to be a threat to the sovereignty of Gibralter and therefore, no case for war:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jingoism-over-gibraltar-threat-politics-live

But sovereignty is not really the issue. The threat to Gibraltar is that it could be excluded from a future UK-EU trade deal, as the EU’s Brexit negotiating guidelines issued on Friday suggested.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Just a quick point on Gibraltar, Spain, UK and Nato; it is possible for NATO members to attack one another, see Greece and Turkey. But things can only go as far as the USA allows. Normally, I'd say the USA wouldn't let things go too far, but with Trump we can't know for sure. Any kind of war is highly unlikely though, Greece and Turkey is a different situation and we are one of the founder nations of NATO and the 2nd most important member, so I don't see us going to war with a fellow member.

In any case, there doesn't seem to be a threat to the sovereignty of Gibralter and therefore, no case for war:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jingoism-over-gibraltar-threat-politics-live

But sovereignty is not really the issue. The threat to Gibraltar is that it could be excluded from a future UK-EU trade deal, as the EU’s Brexit negotiating guidelines issued on Friday suggested.

I think it might suit Gibraltar to be excluded from a future trade deal. Then it could go full-on tax haven, like our other overseas territories (Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands etc.)

A population the size of Lichfield can be quite agile economically.

 

[AuroRaman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sure-alfonso-dastis-theresa-may-a7663986.html

Britain needs to calm down over Gibraltar, Spain's foreign minister has said.

Alfonso Dastis said that he was surprised that the UK government was so excited about the dispute over the island.

"The Spanish government is a little surprised by the tone of comments coming out of Britain, a country known for its composure," he said during a conference in Madrid.

His comments came after a former government minister suggested that Theresa May could be ready to go to war over the island, if it is threatened as part of the Brexit negotiations. Former Conservative leader Michael Howard compared the territory dispute to the Falkland Islands, and said that Britain would be prepared to take similarly aggressive measures.

Current ministers haven't been so extreme, but have suggested that the sovereignty of Gibraltar won't be threatened during the negotiations. Boris Johnson said Gibraltar's sovereignty "is not going to change and cannot conceivably change without the express support and consent of the people of Gibraltar and the United Kingdom."

• READ MORE

Boris Johnson intervenes in Gibraltar sovereignty row
Alfonso Dastis has said that Madrid must have a veto over any agreements made over Gibraltar, which sits on Spain's southern tip and is an important strategic enclave. The EU's plans for the Brexit negotiations let the two countries argue about the territory, which Spain has wanted back since it ceded it to the British more than 300 years ago.

Mr Dastis's comments were similar to those made by Dutch foreign minister Bert Koenders, who called for calm and argued that the Brexit divorce is difficult enough already.

"Let's be cool and carry on, and not use too harsh language, I would say. Let's just negotiate. I think that's the most important," he said.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I think it might suit Gibraltar to be excluded from a future trade deal. Then it could go full-on tax haven, like our other overseas territories (Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands etc.)

A population the size of Lichfield can be quite agile economically.

if they don't have freedom of movement or a very relaxed visa system they would struggle though right?

 

[Gutter Boy]

if they don't have freedom of movement or a very relaxed visa system they would struggle though right?

They are sovereign on all matters apart from defence and foreign policy, so that would be up to them to decide.

IIRC most offshore stuff just needs 'entities' to be established there, not particularly the relocation of staff. And it's not particularly big enough to be somewhere where that many individuals would move to for personal tax reasons

 

[monkeybarry]

They are sovereign on all matters apart from defence and foreign policy, so that would be up to them to decide.

IIRC most offshore stuff just needs 'entities' to be established there, not particularly the relocation of staff. And it's not particularly big enough to be somewhere where that many individuals would move to for personal tax reasons

So effectively you would need a loose border between Gibraltar and Spain but tight rules exit control to stop freedom of movement.
Presumably Gibraltar is not classed as UK soil at present (ie is different to northern Ireland in that respect) so should be easy to implement with the support of the Gibraltan (?) Government

 

[r-u-s-x]

They are sovereign on all matters apart from defence and foreign policy, so that would be up to them to decide.

IIRC most offshore stuff just needs 'entities' to be established there, not particularly the relocation of staff. And it's not particularly big enough to be somewhere where that many individuals would move to for personal tax reasons

& with the support of the EU (*spain)

 

[scaramanga]

& with the support of the EU (*spain)

It doesn't need the support of the EU.

Just how big a tariff do you think would need to be applied to negate the effect of a tax haven? Taxes in the EU are only going to go one way (with the possible exception of CZ) and a tax haven will only become more valuable.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It doesn't need the support of the EU.

Just how big a tariff do you think would need to be applied to negate the effect of a tax haven? Taxes in the EU are only going to go one way (with the possible exception of CZ) and a tax haven will only become more valuable.

*I did quote the wrong point was meant for

"So effectively you would need a loose border between Gibraltar and Spain but tight rules exit control to stop freedom of movement.
Presumably Gibraltar is not classed as UK soil at present (ie is different to northern Ireland in that respect) so should be easy to implement with the support of the Gibraltan (?) Government"