Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Kompakted]

Give exact examples of degrowth, not just sound bites. What are you suggesting exactly?



As though anyone would disagree. What are you suggesting?

I do find it amusing that some have convinced themselves that they're the only people that care about the planet, being happy or having a functioning health care system.....

 

[Kompakted]

Israel going full Russia now and about to invade a 3rd neighbouring country.

If anyone ever suggestion proportional representation is a good idea, the reponse 'mid-2020s Israel' should kill any argument cold. Keep fascists away from power.

Ironically enough I wonder if the recent ramping up of Iran-backed militias which triggered the Israeli response is part of Iran's support of Russia's attack on Ukraine, the aim being to distract from and stifle western support for Ukraine due to having to commit diplomatic and military resources to the middle east as well as increasing economic instability to create conditions for the political will to support Ukraine erode at home.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Ironically enough I wonder if the recent ramping up of Iran-backed militias which triggered the Israeli response is part of Iran's support of Russia's attack on Ukraine, the aim being to distract from and stifle western support for Ukraine due to having to commit diplomatic and military resources to the middle east as well as increasing economic instability to create conditions for the political will to support Ukraine erode at home.

Could be. But Israel started this with Lebanon. And they should have got out of Palestine and Syria a long time ago (probably the early 90s). This is all their own making

 

[Kompakted]

Could be. But Israel started this with Lebanon. And they should have got out of Palestine and Syria a long time ago (probably the early 90s). This is all their own making

Partly. It's also US and other backer's making. Similarly to how northern Ireland troubles only ended with US/UK agreement on conflict, if the US and other backers agreed to recognise Palestine and make support for both sides conditional on implementation of a two-state solution things would very quickly unravel for the hardliners

 

[Gutter Boy]

Partly. It's also US and other backer's making. Similarly to how northern Ireland troubles only ended with US/UK agreement on conflict, if the US and other backers agreed to recognise Palestine and make support for both sides conditional on implementation of a two-state solution things would very quickly unravel for the hardliners

Add in the words '1967 borders', and thats how this gets solved for good. We definitely need a Harris win, and maybe a left/moderates coup in Israel, to enable it though

 

[Kompakted]

Add in the words '1967 borders', and thats how this gets solved for good. We definitely need a Harris win, and maybe a left/moderates coup in Israel, to enable it though

Don't need the coup in Israel, we need the US to pull the rug on unconditional support. It'll only take a while of Israel being truly isolated on the international stage before reality bites and forces Israel to the table regardless of who is in power. One of the biggest challenges will be getting israel to recognise and negotiate with the political wing of Hamas similarly to how getting unionists to even sit round a table with Seinn Fein took a herculean effort. It'll need both sides to forget all the "they killed my family" never surrender feelings that have become entrenched.

 

[Muttley]

Just on the bit of turning up to meetings late and not being in the detail of anything- this is no different to any senior leader of a large organisation and will be no different to how Starmer or any other PM/CEO likely acts. Everyone likes to think their meetings are important, but when you're the PM you'll be back to back with "vitally important" meetings and calls all day. You'll have multiple conflicts in your diary and I imagine you'll have to drop out of what may seem to advisors as hugely important discussions, say for example to take a phone call from the US president on military escalation in the middle east. I believe Cummings was particularly infuriated about Johnson leaving a Covid meeting to take such a phone call but on a complex technical issue a senior leader will lean on SMEs to handle it and it may overall have been wiser to keep the relationship with the US president ticking along rather than be involved in the detail of a complex health issue where you're going to rely on the expert recommendations anyway. The worst trait of a senior leader is micro management. You become a bottle-neck because you want to see everything and be across the detail of everything.

So while Johnson had his flaws, I don't buy the stuff about meetings and being in the detail as being 2 of them.

lol - nice narrative. It feels to me that you happily chose to ignore the points I made and then changed my actual narrative. For the record, I never said Boris needed to be a micro-manager. I never said he needed to be in the details either. What I said was he needed to equip himself with briefings from his own senior leaders at a high level that would inform important decisions in London that he was needing to make. Instead he didn't bother and was late and disruptive in meetings. That was the perception of a team that worked for him, who actually quite liked the guy in other ways. This was as lower stakes than his future roles, as Mayor of London. Talk of chatting with the US president about today's world issue is not relevant to that role.

There are of course different style of leadership. We've seen all sorts across Cameron, May, Johnston, Truss, Sunak etc in a short period of time.

That being said, I've always noticed that my favourite leaders can go deep into detail if they choose to. They don't have time to and shouldn't need to in most cases. However, when it's needed, they can. Listen to some of the best CEO's and they will prove their intelligence in so many ways. They will talk about their products down to every last feature. They will talk about discussions they've had with actual customers. That engenders trust and confidence as well. Boris did at least have people intuition, I think. That can be a super power.

I'm being careful at the moment not to judge Starmer, as I genuinely don't know yet. I'm hoping he has the leadership skills and intelligence that perhaps we haven't seen since Cameron. I think it was you that said above that you were able to rotate between different parties over the decades. I would put myself in that category.

 

[markysimmo]

This isn’t going go away

 

[markysimmo]

Is this prick for real

 

[markysimmo]

He doesn’t see it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838981053886718434

 

[Kompakted]

lol - nice narrative. It feels to me that you happily chose to ignore the points I made and then changed my actual narrative. For the record, I never said Boris needed to be a micro-manager. I never said he needed to be in the details either. What I said was he needed to equip himself with briefings from his own senior leaders at a high level that would inform important decisions in London that he was needing to make. Instead he didn't bother and was late and disruptive in meetings. That was the perception of a team that worked for him, who actually quite liked the guy in other ways. This was as lower stakes than his future roles, as Mayor of London. Talk of chatting with the US president about today's world issue is not relevant to that role.

There are of course different style of leadership. We've seen all sorts across Cameron, May, Johnston, Truss, Sunak etc in a short period of time.

That being said, I've always noticed that my favourite leaders can go deep into detail if they choose to. They don't have time to and shouldn't need to in most cases. However, when it's needed, they can. Listen to some of the best CEO's and they will prove their intelligence in so many ways. They will talk about their products down to every last feature. They will talk about discussions they've had with actual customers. That engenders trust and confidence as well. Boris did at least have people intuition, I think. That can be a super power.

I'm being careful at the moment not to judge Starmer, as I genuinely don't know yet. I'm hoping he has the leadership skills and intelligence that perhaps we haven't seen since Cameron. I think it was you that said above that you were able to rotate between different parties over the decades. I would put myself in that category.

Agree with most of what you've said there to be fair.

Yes, I'll vote:
- for a party that I think has put a case forward that I like
- against a party whose leadership I don't want in government (this will involve voting tactically so that their candidate is less likely to win depending on who is best to block them in my seat)
- For nobody at all if there are no good options.

Unfortunately I've found myself doing the latter two for most of my adult life.

 

[harr1984]

Loving all the false equivalence arguments on here. That is one of the oldest tactics going. Clearly, some have forgotten just how corrupt the Tories were, paying out tens of millions of pounds to their mates and donors for PPE that either did not exist or was not fit for purpose. That is just the corruption relating to the covid response, There were also dodgy land deals to property developers and all the rest.

Ah yes, and had Labour been in power during this period there would have been none of this going on at all of course. Facts are our politicians regardless of party are all the same, all have their own self interests as the priority. Give Labour a few years of running the country and there will be scandals left right and centre for them too....

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I don't think to much can be read into the government so soon after its come to power.

They deserve a chance to govern and the country voted them in with a big majority. Do think they have brought some of the criticism on themselves by the way they went after the previous government. But I guess that's the nature of the beast.

The covid contracts were a fcuk up by the tories, but unless people are accusing them of starting covid themselves i will let it go.

It was a mad time and they were under pressure to get PPE equipment, it always smacked of incompetence rather than deliberate fraud.

Which was my view of Johnson, incompetent and lazy but not really criminal.

 

[thfcsteff]

That is a rather benign view of capitalism that I wouldn't share but we'll have to put a pin in that until I get new computer and can respond at length.

Whatever your view on it capitalism by its inherent nature must have perpetual expansion. It must have an ever-increasing production of commodified goods, whether we need them or not. To succeed at this it requires an ever increasing quantity of inputs, namely labour and nature, or the cheapening of these inputs. To date this mostly meant taking these from the global south but we have reached the limit on this colonial exercise too. We have run out of roadway a long time back and have overshot the capacity of the planet to sustain this expansionist system. We are headed for a fall whether we like it or not.

Fantastically stated IMO.

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't think to much can be read into the government so soon after its come to power.

They deserve a chance to govern and the country voted them in with a big majority. Do think they have brought some of the criticism on themselves by the way they went after the previous government. But I guess that's the nature of the beast.

The covid contracts were a fcuk up by the tories, but unless people are accusing them of starting covid themselves i will let it go.

It was a mad time and they were under pressure to get PPE equipment, it always smacked of incompetence rather than deliberate fraud.

Which was my view of Johnson, incompetent and lazy but not really criminal.

As someone involved in ppe it was all but impossible to get it and the frenzy that surrounded it the government had to do everything possible to get it.
It was pay what was being demanded or by accused of murder.
Was that situation taken advantage of, you fudging bet it was, and I bet the people making a big deal about it now are the same ones screaming for ppe at any cost.

 

[Kompakted]

I don't think to much can be read into the government so soon after its come to power.

They deserve a chance to govern and the country voted them in with a big majority. Do think they have brought some of the criticism on themselves by the way they went after the previous government. But I guess that's the nature of the beast.

The covid contracts were a fcuk up by the tories, but unless people are accusing them of starting covid themselves i will let it go.

It was a mad time and they were under pressure to get PPE equipment, it always smacked of incompetence rather than deliberate fraud.

Which was my view of Johnson, incompetent and lazy but not really criminal.

I don't even think it was incompetence. It was desperation. I think we've all forgotten what a bat-brick time covid was. I know I've lost 2 years. My wife gave birth to our twin daughters in May 2020. She reminded me that I spent half my time driving around from supermarket to supermarket trying to find nappies, formula and toilet rolls. It felt desperate at times.

PPE was just pure desperation as the NHS's main supplier was blocked by the French government from supplying them and in hindsight the pandemic stocks were inadequate and there was a feeding frenzy on the international markets - so calls were going out by ministers to their pals or contacts in industry to see what favours could be pulled and if stuff became available it was buy first and check the quality later. I think it was just the reality of the situation. The only one I think has a whiff of wrong doing about it was the stuff with Mone's husband but I believe that's being investigated by the authorities.

 

[parklane1]

Ah yes, and had Labour been in power during this period there would have been none of this going on at all of course. Facts are our politicians regardless of party are all the same, all have their own self interests as the priority. Give Labour a few years of running the country and there will be scandals left right and centre for them too....

Would have to agree with this, i have been around a long time and i do not think there has ever been a time when both the major parties have been so poor and bent.

 

[Kompakted]

Would have to agree with this, i have been around a long time and i do not think there has ever been a time when both the major parties have been so poor and bent.

Don't know. I think it's been a trend for a long time, but people's memories fade:
- At the end of the tory reign in the mid-90s you had cash for questions but my dad tells me that followed a string of scandals that dogged the tories in the last days of Thatcher and under Major.
- New Labour were continually dogged by sleaze and corruption allegations:
- Labour had to return an undeclared donation from Bernie Ecclestone which the press linked to a decision to approve tobacco sponsorship of F1.
- Peter Mandelson had to resign when some murky financial dealings (again undeclared) were uncovered in the press. Think he got reinstated later on but had to resign again after giving misleading statements to parliament
- Iraq dossier/Dr Kelly/Hutton. Enquiry scandal.
- cash for honours, with Tony Blair threatening the Met Police with resignation if they chose to interview him under caution

 

[parklane1]

Don't know. I think it's been a trend for a long time, but people's memories fade:
- At the end of the tory reign in the mid-90s you had cash for questions but my dad tells me that followed a string of scandals that dogged the tories in the last days of Thatcher and under Major.
- New Labour were continually dogged by sleaze and corruption allegations:
- Labour had to return an undeclared donation from Bernie Ecclestone which the press linked to a decision to approve tobacco sponsorship of F1.
- Peter Mandelson had to resign when some murky financial dealings (again undeclared) were uncovered in the press. Think he got reinstated later on but had to resign again after giving misleading statements to parliament
- Iraq dossier/Dr Kelly/Hutton. Enquiry scandal.
- cash for honours, with Tony Blair threatening the Met Police with resignation if they chose to interview him under caution

I understand what you are saying and yes you have made good points, probably i should have worded my post better. What i should have said i do not remember a time when both partys at the same time were as poor/bent/crooked as they are now.

 

[Muttley]

I don't think to much can be read into the government so soon after its come to power.

They deserve a chance to govern and the country voted them in with a big majority. Do think they have brought some of the criticism on themselves by the way they went after the previous government. But I guess that's the nature of the beast.

The covid contracts were a fcuk up by the tories, but unless people are accusing them of starting covid themselves i will let it go.

It was a mad time and they were under pressure to get PPE equipment, it always smacked of incompetence rather than deliberate fraud.

Which was my view of Johnson, incompetent and lazy but not really criminal.

Yeah, this is also how I see the world. What I would ponder is whether the management of COVID is perhaps representative of how other key areas of government are managed day to day in Whitehall. COVID was a period in our history that sort of has a start and finish date, at least to a normalisation period of what we manage with the virus today. That is not the same as education, health, DWP etc which are just one big continuum. If governments are managing these areas as badly as they did COVID then we should be worried.

I'm not certain a change of personnel under Starmer will suddenly bring in all the missing competencies required, but we have to give it time.