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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Well it is fate, Mr Farage is coming to my local town, shoreham by sea to do a talk tomorrow night at the airport.

Chance to thank my hero for fighting the good fight on behalf of everyone who believes in democracy, him and Corbyn are the same in the sense they want to give local people a chance to have a voice.

Also a chance to thank him for giving up his career in the city to take lower money on the political circuit, but his dedication and hard work and sacrifice has given people up and down the country a voice.

I like his view of a self governing Britain, and as after the last election we saw the right in UKIP disappear, I believe the future of this country if we leave the EU is a decent mainstream centre ground future, if we don't leave then the Brexit party and UKIP will come back up and rightly so.

Odd thing is this thread does not appear on the random side of the website when I am logged in but does when I am logged out. Only way I can find it is by looking through alerts, almost as if someone on here is trying to stop someone writing things they disagree with.

Part of our democracy is that people are allowed a voice unless they are inciting violence or hatred. If I have at any time done that then I suggest you call the police or ban me. Or in fact even just man up and send a PM explaining it. But no I expect that sort of behaviour from remoaners, if you dont agree with someone who has a difference of opinion to you, then you either try to paint them as an extremist or stop their message.

The country is getting wise to what you people are up to, and that is why you can never win in the long run, because you might like it and you might not like people who vote and think a different way to you, but we all deserve our say.
 
monkeybarry said:
That really is utter brick. Again you have rejected the notion that they made a choice for their own lives.
They like saying, my dad is a taco so I'm never getting on a bus again.
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Hey even the mafia dont go after the families.


Should not each person be judged on their own merits. He has brought his children up to make their own mind, find that rather refreshing. I have told my own son he can think which ever way he wants politically but he has to think things through he has to use his own mind and not just follow what others think. If he ends up a big pro European, then I would be proud of him as long as he explains is reasons for doing so, he has thought them through and he shows respect for people who have different opinions.

If anything it shows what a good parent Farage has been that his children grow up with their own independent views. It is not like they are going around calling people who want to leave racists. Racism is (rightly so) an illegal offence in this country, so if his children grow up to do that, like some members of this site then he might have reason to be ashamed, but otherwise I dont see anything but good from his children having the self confidence to go their own way.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Particularly if your mother was european. That's why there's absolutely nothing to this.
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I don't think you see the point here. Its not that there is any criticism of Farrage. That he wants to be British and out of Europe and his kids want to be part of Europe is okay. Not a problem. They won't have the same rights in their fathers nation but so beit, that is a choice. The point is the choice Farage's kids have made will be denied to us, and British kids who don't have an EU mother. They won't be able to chose to live and work in Europe with the same freedom. Is it a form of hypocrisy? The privilege his family enjoys will be not available to most others if his wishes come true. Not a big point, but you seemed to have missed it.
 
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DTA said:
Those that voted leave are obviously not ALL far right and Neither are ALL those that led the leave campaigns. But when JRM and Borris cosy up to Bannon and AFD then they should absolutely be called out, and any self respecting leave supporter should be calling them out as well.
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Absolutely agree. On both points.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Hey even the mafia dont go after the families.


Should not each person be judged on their own merits. He has bought his children up to make their own mind, find that rather refreshing. I have told my own son he can think which ever way he wants politically but he has to think things through he has to use his own mind and not just follow what others think. If he ends up a big pro European, then I would be proud of him as long as he explains is reasons for doing so, he has thought them through and he shows respect for people who have different opinions.

If anything it shows what a good parent Farage has been that his children grow up with their own independent views. It is not like they are going around calling people who want to leave racists. Racism is (rightly so) an illegal offence in this country, so if his children grow up to do that, like some members of this site then he might have reason to be ashamed, but otherwise I dont see anything but good from his children having the self confidence to go their own way.
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Exactly!
 
SpurMeUp said:
I don't think you see the point here. Its not that there is any criticism of Farrage. That he wants to be British and out of Europe and his kids want to be part of Europe is okay. Not a problem. They won't have the same rights in their fathers nation but so beit, that is a choice. The point is the choice Farage's kids have made will be denied to us, and British kids who don't have an EU mother. They won't be able to chose to live and work in Europe with the same freedom. Is it a form of hypocrisy? The privilege his family enjoys will be not available to most others if his wishes come true. Not a big point, but you seemed to have missed it.
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Is it a form of hypocrisy? In my opinion, no, it probably isn't. Here's why;

I'd suggest that it's virtually impossible to call the true intent of an action such as this (or even to take much of an educated guess) without actually knowing the people involved, their personalities, motivations etc. My best guess however is that the children in this case simply wish to hold the same citizenship as their mother - and as I said earlier, entirely irrespective of any political considerations. I'm assuming that would be their first priority. That they are simply seeking to protect their family ties given that there is some possibility that brexit could interfere with their situation. And you know what? If my mother were German, I'd probably do the very same thing in such circumstances. And I wouldn't feel in the slightest bit hypocritical doing so.

I can support this with a real-life, personal story highlighting the distinction I would make between a hypocritical and a non-hypocritical action: I would qualify for an Irish passport by descent. After the referendum result, more than one person suggested to me that I might want to take advantage of this. My answer to them was categoric. I have no living, close family in Ireland and so as much as I like the place (and I was there as recently as January), I would consider it highly hypocritical of myself to take up the passport purely with a view to securing the EU-related benefits of such.

Can you see the difference between the two scenarios?
 
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https://thefintechtimes.com/london-global-fintech-hub/

James Murray, Director of Financial Services at Robert Walters said: “When spotlighting the UK’s leading fintech unicorns, the income growth they have achieved over the past twelve months is phenomenal – increasing from a combined £77.1m to £177.6m revenue. That’s a revenue growth of 130% in just one year!”


Did not go to see Farage after all tonight, had to take my son out to Tennis, will be glad when he is driving in a couple of years. I am glad to know that at least I now help to fund his new party.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Not sure if serious, but see my response to @SpurMeUp above
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Very serious question. And one that remains unanswered.
You have made lots of hypotheses based on nothing more than conjecture. But you have not addressed your bias.
Why are they more likely to choose EU nationality because of female parentage ahead of personal liberty?
 
monkeybarry said:
Very serious question. And one that remains unanswered.
You have made lots of hypotheses based on nothing more than conjecture. But you have not addressed your bias.
Why are they more likely to choose EU nationality because of female parentage ahead of personal liberty?
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To enable them to reside in their mother's home country perhaps, a right that would presumably be removed from them as a result of brexit? I'd imagine in their situation, that would be my primary concern.

Given that the marriage in question has apparently broken down, I would have thought there exists at least some possibility that the woman concerned might wish to return to live in her native country at some point. Why would any family in such a situation not act first and foremost to secure their options?
 
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Parklaner81 said:
To enable them to reside in their mother's home country perhaps, a right that would presumably be removed from them as a result of brexit? I'd imagine in their situation, that would be my primary concern.

Given that the marriage in question has apparently broken down, I would have thought there exists at least some possibility that the woman concerned might wish to return to live in her native country at some point. Why would any family in such a situation not act first and foremost to secure their options?
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Fixated by mothers. Have you considered Freud?

This is just one more of the Brexit negatives. Denying our young freedom and choice that we enjoyed. Farage and his wife had no problem moving nation, working, building a family across borders in Europe. Something a new generation won’t find so easy.

Like or not, his kids show the folly of Brexit. Farage preaches to Leave the EU while his family seek to stay in it themselves. If you can’t see the irony then your bias is stronger than you’re able to admit.

On the other hand, if there are no identifiable benefits to Brexit, that can be talked about, that stand up to scrutiny, how can people continue to back it in blind faith? The truth is starring us in the face, but we should look the other way?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Fixated by mothers. Have you considered Freud?
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What on earth are you talking about?

My posts have been written in the context of the specific example we're discussing, in which it's the taking of...you guessed it...the mother's nationality that is the talking point. As I've pointed out previously, the example could easily be applied the opposite way. Except in this case, it isn't. But resorting to jibes like this says a lot for the strength of your argument.
 
Parklaner81 said:
What on earth are you talking about?

My posts have been written in the context of the specific example we're discussing, in which it's the taking of...you guessed it...the mother's nationality that is the talking point. As I've pointed out previously, the example could easily be applied the opposite way. Except in this case, it isn't. But resorting to jibes like this says a lot for the strength of your argument.
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That you focus on this light quip, and not the issues, says a lot about the strength of your agreement. [emoji6]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
That you focus on this light quip, and not the issues, says a lot about the strength of your agreement. [emoji6]
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On the contrary. I ignored the 'issues' you raised because once again, you veered away from the specific point under discussion and attempted to take it back to the more general brexit question. It's your stock move when you don't have a decent answer, and I've pointed this out to you many times before.

I answered your point about hypocrisy, and even used a personal example to illustrate it. Given your usual extremely high response rate, I took it as very telling that you did not offer a response to this post. What really shocked me though about your "light quip" was how easily you appear to have been led in this direction by the comments of another poster. I thought better of you than that.
 
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Parklaner81 said:
I ignored the 'issues' you raised because once again, you veered away from the specific point under discussion and attempted to take it back to the more general brexit question. It's your stock move when you don't have a decent answer, and I've pointed this out to you many times before.

I answered your point about hypocrisy, and even used a personal example to illustrate it. Given your usual extremely high response rate, I took it as very telling that you did not offer a response to this post. What really shocked me though about this "light quip" was how easily you appear to have been led in this direction by the comments of another poster. I thought better of you than that.
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It’s not personal to me. Brexit doesn’t make sense. That you can’t make sense of it either is all I’m trying to show. In which case let’s move forward and not damage our nation by backing it.

Simple really.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Former Conservative MP Ann Widdecombe has announced she is set to return to politics - for the Brexit Party.

Ms Widdecombe, 71, said she would still vote Conservative in the upcoming local elections but would stand as a candidate for Nigel Farage's new party in the European elections.

She said she wanted to "fire a very loud warning shot across the bows" of the established parties.

The former shadow home secretary has been retired since 2010.

Writing in the Daily Express, Ms Widdecombe said the "last thing" she wanted was "a full-on return to the political fray" but she felt it necessary to re-affirm "the supremacy of the will of the people".

She added: "What the Remain campaign failed to achieve by fear must not be achieved by fatigue."
 
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