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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

yiddo37 said:
All the pensioners I know cruise around the High St and shopping centres, that's the limit of their budget.
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My sister in laws parents have worked hard and paid tax all their life and are literally just above the level mooted. The father catches the bus everyday to go meet his friend for a coffee and to go to the u3a groups he is in.

Not rich by any stretch of the imagination and don't put the heating on in all rooms in their house.

Some of the rhetoric said towards pensioners is pretty shocking.

As we are all trying to tone down the language used in political debates I would hope they could be treated with the sympathy and understanding we would like to see all sections of our society be treated with.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
My sister in laws parents have worked hard and paid tax all their life and are literally just above the level mooted. The father catches the bus everyday to go meet his friend for a coffee and to go to the u3a groups he is in.

Not rich by any stretch of the imagination and don't put the heating on in all rooms in their house.

Some of the rhetoric said towards pensioners is pretty shocking.

As we are all trying to tone down the language used in political debates I would hope they could be treated with the sympathy and understanding we would like to see all sections of our society be treated with.
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Agreed - although there aren’t many in society as a whole who aren’t finding things financially difficult at the moment. The pension is triple-locked, and there’s likely to be other benefits passed on to pensioners in the budget, so they are likely to find they will be up overall. That’s all that most of the working population can hope for at the moment.
 
Mikey10 said:
Agreed - although there aren’t many in society as a whole who aren’t finding things financially difficult at the moment. The pension is triple-locked, and there’s likely to be other benefits passed on to pensioners in the budget, so they are likely to find they will be up overall. That’s all that most of the working population can hope for at the moment.
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Well we will have to wait to see how it all pans out. Won't be the day of the budget but when the investigative reporters a day or two later have costed it all in.

That is if of course the reporters are not busy writing nasty things about brown or Muslim people.

I guess the other side would be that pensioners have limited chances of improving their wealth where as people of working age can.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But they have homes. And usually very big ones. Homes are things working age populations dont dare dream about anymore. 15 years of declining incomes, whilst pensioners' have contiinously soared well above inflation.
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"very big", what is very a big house?
What % of pensioners do you think are living in very big houses?
I bet it's lot less than the % that will suffer from having £300 a year taken off them.

£11,000 pounds a year is not exactly a generous income.
And that is the problem with %, 100% of 0 is still nothing.
Average UK inflation for the last 20 years plus has been what, 3% max.
Of £11,000 that is less than £6.50 a week.
How much has the minimum wage, designed to help low paid youngsters, gone up in the equiv time?
 
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Danishfurniturelover said:
That is a large assumption of pensioners which is not backed up by the ones I know. Who though not on pensioners credits are not so rich that they spend "half the lives on cruises"
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It's an exaggerated point, for sure.
However, the winter fuel allowance is a top up, not a right.
Pensioners income already increases at a higher rate than wages. The winter fuel allowance is a disproportionate bonus. Why don't I get a winter fuel allowance too?

Removing it makes sense. As does pushing eligible pensioners to claim UC if they are eligible.
Yes pensioners have tighter budgets because of the cost of living - we all do, and it sucks
 
glasgowspur said:
"very big", what is very a big house?
What % of pensioners do you think are living in very big houses?
I bet it's lot less than the % that will suffer from having £300 a year taken off them.

£11,000 pounds a year is not exactly a generous income.
And that is the problem with %, 100% of 0 is still nothing.
Average UK inflation for the last 20 years plus has been what, 3% max.
Of £11,000 that is less than £6.50 a week.
How much has the minimum wage, designed to help low paid youngsters, gone up in the equiv time?
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This post is interesting, because it raises a key question - what sort of lifestyle do we expect the state pension to support?

I'm going to argue that it's only a very basic needs one, and that private pension provision should be in place for anything greater.

That's not based on my own politics, it's based on the position that the UK is a capitalist, neo-liberal society (not a socialist one - NHS aside) and has been for over 40 years.

We have a generation of pensioners that grew up in their working lived surrounded by wealth (whether their own or in society in general) and now expect more in retirement, but some of them didn't make private wealth provision (pension, property, other investments etc) but still want the good life.
Unfortunately they can't have their cake and eat it.

It's a interesting phycology the state pension - the pensioner generation before would have been in the war, or at least experienced rationing and the messaging from their parents; so they're retirement expectations are very very different.
 
monkeybarry said:
This post is interesting, because it raises a key question - what sort of lifestyle do we expect the state pension to support?

I'm going to argue that it's only a very basic needs one, and that private pension provision should be in place for anything greater.

That's not based on my own politics, it's based on the position that the UK is a capitalist, neo-liberal society (not a socialist one - NHS aside) and has been for over 40 years.

We have a generation of pensioners that grew up in their working lived surrounded by wealth (whether their own or in society in general) and now expect more in retirement, but some of them didn't make private wealth provision (pension, property, other investments etc) but still want the good life.
Unfortunately they can't have their cake and eat it.

It's a interesting phycology the state pension - the pensioner generation before would have been in the war, or at least experienced rationing and the messaging from their parents; so they're retirement expectations are very very different.
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The real issue is the sudden increase in not a only longer life span, but the fitness of people in their 60s and 70s meaning that they are still able to live an active lifestyle.
Much like the younger generations have been sold a pup with degree level education being the best route to their dreams, many in their sixties that are retiring are discovering that the "grey gap year" and that their twilight years won't be carefree days of tennis, golf, or sipping wine with their gourmet food on a cruise liner.
I know several people who retired just after covid because they couldn't face going back to work, now they have run out of money and trying to get back to work part time.
It's easy, and heartless, to think these generations, those in their 60s are the only pensioners, but my father, mother in law and several aunts who are now late 80s had none of that.
They grew up during the war, worked in conditions that frankly were appalling, raised families in slum conditions (and never in more than a three bed council house) worked until the official retirement age before retiring. Private pensions were not really introduced until they were well into their 40s.

This is what boils my blood when I cretins like you know who with thier claims of pensioners living in luxury.
Not just that it's being said, but like another discussion (or three) raging on these forums at the moment it's that these arguments are becoming in bedded and actually taking people away from the real issue.
Sorry for the length of the reply.
 
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People who worked all their lives and paid taxes not being able to live comfortable in a country as wealthy as ours is the issue. Parents who work full time and have children not being able to eat is the issue.

We just need a government that is willing to put the ordinary people at the heart of their policies. We won't get one while the elections are decided by tabloids.
 
glasgowspur said:
The real issue is the sudden increase in not a only longer life span, but the fitness of people in their 60s and 70s meaning that they are still able to live an active lifestyle.
Much like the younger generations have been sold a pup with degree level education being the best route to their dreams, many in their sixties that are retiring are discovering that the "grey gap year" and that their twilight years won't be carefree days of tennis, golf, or sipping wine with their gourmet food on a cruise liner.
I know several people who retired just after covid because they couldn't face going back to work, now they have run out of money and trying to get back to work part time.
It's easy, and heartless, to think these generations, those in their 60s are the only pensioners, but my father, mother in law and several aunts who are now late 80s had none of that.
They grew up during the war, worked in conditions that frankly were appalling, raised families in slum conditions (and never in more than a three bed council house) worked until the official retirement age before retiring. Private pensions were not really introduced until they were well into their 40s.

This is what boils my blood when I cretins like you know who with thier claims of pensioners living in luxury.
Not just that it's being said, but like another discussion (or three) raging on these forums at the moment it's that these arguments are becoming in bedded and actually taking people away from the real issue.
Sorry for the length of the reply.
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Your examples are of course valid and I’m not arguing with them.

But there are millions of pensioners living quite (and many living very) comfortably. I know lots of them in my family, and some who are neighbours: retired in their late 50s on lovely civil service or company pensions, and - in the case of my in-laws, and a few on my street - are still drawing on them over 30 years later.

I of course don’t begrudge them the pension money; but I certainly don’t think they should be receiving a winter fuel allowance which goes into their financial pot (which is much bigger than mine) to help fund their golf club fees, or one of the three or four foreign holidays they have every year. They don’t need it- and to keep giving it annually to pensioners in this group would be very wasteful on the government’s part.
 
Mikey10 said:
Your examples are of course valid and I’m not arguing with them.

But there are millions of pensioners living quite (and many living very) comfortably. I know lots of them in my family, and some who are neighbours: retired in their late 50s on lovely civil service or company pensions, and - in the case of my in-laws, and a few on my street - are still drawing on them over 30 years later.

I of course don’t begrudge them the pension money; but I certainly don’t think they should be receiving a winter fuel allowance which goes into their financial pot (which is much bigger than mine) to help fund their golf club fees, or one of the three or four foreign holidays they have every year. They don’t need it- and to keep giving it annually to pensioners in this group would be very wasteful on the government’s part.
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Totally agree it should be means tested.
I said it when this topic was originally raised and I've been saying for years, in fact I'd wager that many of the people receiving it that are in the fortunate position you speak of are of a similar opinion.
However this now almost constant narrative that all pensioners are parasites living off the tears of the young, from supposedly caring people, is to perfectly frank fudging disgusting.
 
glasgowspur said:
Totally agree it should be means tested.
I said it when this topic was originally raised and I've been saying for years, in fact I'd wager that many of the people receiving it that are in the fortunate position you speak of are of a similar opinion.
However this now almost constant narrative that all pensioners are parasites living off the tears of the young, from supposedly caring people, is to perfectly frank fudging disgusting.
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It's just a bit of a kick back after 14 years of the Tories feathering the pillows of their core voters, while the rest of the country was repeatedly shat on.
 
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