Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Diamond Lights]

really incredible the oxygen Farage gets.

Blows my mind really. Imagine after his project Brexit has made us all worse off, he's on the box telling the people of Clacton he can fix their problems with the same brick and they lap it up.

Unreal.

 

[Rorschach]

There's a lot in there that I honestly agree with, but there's also quite a bit that think is pretty skewed.
I well remember the power of the unions and the road the country was going down.
And it wasn't just the coal miners, shipyard workers, council workers, car manufacturing were all at it. It was a brick hole.
She was elected because of the state of the country, as a government minister she has to take some of the responsibility for some of it, I can't agree with how she went about it and yes she did go out to smash the unions, but then the unions were out to smash anyone who didn't agree with them.
Compromise was in neither of their vocabulary.

The Falklands was one of those relatively small turning moments, she would have lost if not for that and history might well have viewed her differently.
Personally I think you give her too credit Steff, I don't think she had the intelligence to make sweeping policies, she was blinkered and dogmatic, once an idea was in her mind she rode it for all it was worth. Good or bad.

Thatcher's ideas were never her own either. Anthony Fisher's Institute for Economic Affairs (IEA) was the thinktank that turned the electorate away from Keynesian economic ideas, that in truth were floundering around that time, and supplanted them with Fredrick Hayek's neoliberal ones. It was from this poisoned soil that Thatcherism grew. A tragic mistake we have still not recovered from, IMO.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

really incredible the oxygen Farage gets.

Blows my mind really. Imagine after his project Brexit has made us all worse off, he's on the box telling the people of Clacton he can fix their problems with the same brick and they lap it up.

Unreal.

He's certainly a barometer

 

[glasgowspur]

Always enjoy sitting up and watching election night results roll in.
Looking at the polls and those predicted to have an uncomfortable night this one is going to be a belter.

 

[parklane1]

I despised her then just as I do now. It doesn't mean I can't objectivelt agree that she single-handedly changed British society, and that was quite an incredible action with regards to the extent she did...I just despise how she single-handedly waged war on the working class and used them for all her big 'victories'...we should also never forget that the Falklands invasion did not need to happen. Carrington had provided intelligence months earlier that it could happen. She knew she was out that election, so it seems clear that she gambled a jingo-bells Falklands invasion rather than quietly take care of the threat with preventative measure (full disclosure, I think us 'owning' the Falklands is pathetic personally). I'll stop now...

Firstly i will say sorry for cutting your post down to just the above [ i agree with all of it] but above is piece which has always annoyed me about the milk snatcher. i was working in America at the time and there were four of us in a car on our way to work [ 3 brits and a yank]. we had the news on the radio when a piece came on saying that a Argentine navy force was sailing toward the British Falklands Islands. We all said WHY would the Argentina navy want to invade some small Islands of Scotland and we all thought it was a joke and thought we had misheard it.

We never thought more about it untill the news on the TV an week or so later annouced that the Argies had taken the islands and relized it was not those near Scotland. Thatcher had known about the sailing but because she was knew that with the elections on the way and her party would probaby get kicked out she had ignored it and told the lie that it was news to her when the islands were taken. She then acted when in all honesty she should have stopped it happening in the first place. She was a evil bitch but it won her another election because the fools back in England thought she was a hero.

i know there are still SOME folks out there who thought she was a hero but she hid the truth as she had been told about it far earlier then she says. As i said it was on the LA radio news stations long before the Argies actually took the Islands.

 

[thfcsteff]

There's a lot in there that I honestly agree with, but there's also quite a bit that think is pretty skewed.
I well remember the power of the unions and the road the country was going down.
And it wasn't just the coal miners, shipyard workers, council workers, car manufacturing were all at it. It was a brick hole.
She was elected because of the state of the country, as a government minister she has to take some of the responsibility for some of it, I can't agree with how she went about it and yes she did go out to smash the unions, but then the unions were out to smash anyone who didn't agree with them.
Compromise was in neither of their vocabulary.

The Falklands was one of those relatively small turning moments, she would have lost if not for that and history might well have viewed her differently.
Personally I think you give her too credit Steff, I don't think she had the intelligence to make sweeping policies, she was blinkered and dogmatic, once an idea was in her mind she rode it for all it was worth. Good or bad.

I am enjoying the discussion mate and, as ever especially at our age, it is a dialectical one

 

[thfcsteff]

Firstly i will say sorry for cutting your post down to just the above [ i agree with all of it] but above is piece which has always annoyed me about the milk snatcher. i was working in America at the time and there were four of us in a car on our way to work [ 3 brits and a yank]. we had the news on the radio when a piece came on saying that a Argentine navy force was sailing toward the British Falklands Islands. We all said WHY would the Argentina navy want to invade some small Islands of Scotland and we all thought it was a joke and thought we had misheard it.

We never thought more about it untill the news on the TV an week or so later annouced that the Argies had taken the islands and relized it was not those near Scotland. Thatcher had known about the sailing but because she was knew that with the elections on the way and her party would probaby get kicked out she had ignored it and told the lie that it was news to her when the islands were taken. She then acted when in all honesty she should have stopped it happening in the first place. She was a evil bitch but it won her another election because the fools back in England thought she was a hero.

i know there are still SOME folks out there who thought she was a hero but she hid the truth as she had been told about it far earlier then she says. As i said it was on the LA radio news stations long before the Argies actually took the Islands.

Absolutely right!

 

[Lilbaz]

really incredible the oxygen Farage gets.

Blows my mind really. Imagine after his project Brexit has made us all worse off, he's on the box telling the people of Clacton he can fix their problems with the same brick and they lap it up.

Unreal.

What did you expect? For 20 years people have been saying there are problems. But told they were stupid or racist for raising those problems.

So they vote for the people who say yes they are problems and we will try to solve them. Even if it's bs.

Hence the whole of europe shifting to nationalists. Brexit etc...

Grats.

I hate it. This should have been nipped in the bud at least a decade ago. But it is what it is. Now we have to deal with it. Or it will get a lot worse.

 

[Jurgen the German]

What did you expect? For 20 years people have been saying there are problems. But told they were stupid or racist for raising those problems.

So they vote for the people who say yes they are problems and we will try to solve them. Even if it's bs.

Hence the whole of europe shifting to nationalists. Brexit etc...

Grats.

I hate it. This should have been nipped in the bud at least a decade ago. But it is what it is. Now we have to deal with it. Or it will get a lot worse.

I wouldn’t go as far for voting for Farage, but I would like someone other than him to give a reasonable and credible number to the question “how many immigrants is too many?”. We need immigrants but “infinity” isn’t really an answer to “how many is too many?”

 

[Seedy Ron]

whoops

Rishi Sunak aide placed bet on election date days before announcement

Exclusive: £100 bet placed in Montgomeryshire – the constituency of Craig Williams – over July poll

www.theguardian.com

Sunak making good on his promise to return dignity to the Tories...

Looks like this was too good an opportunity for pocket lining to miss. A spiv's gotta spiv I suppose, and not too many opportunities since the VIP lane.

 

[Lilbaz]

I wouldn’t go as far for voting for Farage, but I would like someone other than him to give a reasonable and credible number to the question “how many immigrants is too many?”. We need immigrants but “infinity” isn’t really an answer to “how many is too many?”

How many houses/schools/hospitals etc... are we already short on? 150k children without a home in the uk. How many houses etc... are you going to build each year. Compared to how many immigrants are you going to accept?

Lets get rid of the emotive and talk practical.

 

[Mikey10]

How many houses/schools/hospitals etc... are we already short on? 150k children without a home in the uk. How many houses etc... are you going to build each year. Compared to how many immigrants are you going to accept?

Lets get rid of the emotive and talk practical.

Who’s going to continue to staff the NHS and the care sector? Who’s going to make up the net additional benefit that most migrants bring to our economy?

 

[Lilbaz]

Who’s going to continue to staff the NHS and the care sector? Who’s going to make up the net additional benefit that most migrants bring to our economy?

I've not said anywhere to stop immigration. I'm a child of an immigrant.

Just want a practical immigration policy. Bringing in immigrants that are a benefit to our society. But people don't hear that. They haven't heard it in over 20 years and now you are getting nazis voted in, in sweeden, germany, netherlands etc...

Grats.

 

[DTA]

I've not said anywhere to stop immigration. I'm a child of an immigrant.

Just want a practical immigration policy. Bringing in immigrants that are a benefit to our society. But people don't hear that. They haven't heard it in over 20 years and now you are getting nazis voted in, in sweeden, germany, netherlands etc...

Grats.

look at the 2007 banking crisis. And then look back to the 1929 banking crises and what happened in the decade that followed.

It was all the immigrants fault… Jewish people were seen as immigrants no matter how long they had been in the country.

Now the immigrants are more diverse.

No way was it the fault of the bankers and the elite.

Let’s just blame the immigrants.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

look at the 2007 banking crisis. And then look back to the 1929 banking crises and what happened in the decade that followed.

It was all the immigrants fault… Jewish people were seen as immigrants no matter how long they had been in the country.

Now the immigrants are more diverse.

No way was it the fault of the bankers and the elite.

Let’s just blame the immigrants.

People love someone (or something) to blame. It gives them closure and/or satisfaction. It's sad really. Rarely will they look at things holistically and GHod forbid they look at their own actions. (deflection?).

Our football club is a good example of that. When things are going well everyone is joyous and a great sense of harmony ensues. When things are rough, the blame comes out and the place is toxic.

Not surprisingly, both these situations revolve around money. We don't do as well as we should because there are cheats and owners not playing by the rules with suitcases of money. Just as the boys in the city flexed and twisted the financial instruments so they could put their hands in the cookie jar over and over. Do these groups of people ever suck up a punishment?, rarely.
Ironically, it's the hoarders of (out of thin air)wealth at the top, that could help the situation of the less fortunate, but thats not their MO. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure there's enough to go round.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

People love someone (or something) to blame. It gives them closure and/or satisfaction. It's sad really. Rarely will they look at things holistically and GHod forbid they look at their own actions. (deflection?).

Our football club is a good example of that. When things are going well everyone is joyous and a great sense of harmony ensues. When things are rough, the blame comes out and the place is toxic.

Not surprisingly, both these situations revolve around money. We don't do as well as we should because there are cheats and owners not playing by the rules with suitcases of money. Just as the boys in the city flexed and twisted the financial instruments so they could put their hands in the cookie jar over and over. Do these groups of people ever suck up a punishment?, rarely.
Ironically, it's the hoarders of (out of thin air)wealth at the top, that could help the situation of the less fortunate, but thats not their MO. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure there's enough to go round.

Theres never enough for those at the top.

 

[P.D.]

really incredible the oxygen Farage gets.

Blows my mind really. Imagine after his project Brexit has made us all worse off, he's on the box telling the people of Clacton he can fix their problems with the same brick and they lap it up.

Unreal.

It's not really surprising, for years there's been a 2 party system with not a huge amount of difference between them. Each promise to make your lives better yet most people see less opportunity, poorer services, higher house prices etc and are simply fed up. Then when questioned none of them can even give a straight answer to anything. If someone comes along who purports to tell things as they are and offer something different then why wouldn't they sit up and listen.

Irony is he went to private school, worked as a banker etc but doesn't seem to affect him. He's probably been the most effective British politician this century, without him Brexit would never have happened. I wouldn't be surprised if his next push is for PR, say Reform get 15-20% and the Greens get 5-7% they could end up with 20%+ of the vote and 1% of the seats - what pricy they ally up and push for PR.

What's really changing now is that lots more younger people are turning to these parties, the leader in France is only 28.

 

[glasgowspur]

It's not really surprising, for years there's been a 2 party system with not a huge amount of difference between them. Each promise to make your lives better yet most people see less opportunity, poorer services, higher house prices etc and are simply fed up. Then when questioned none of them can even give a straight answer to anything. If someone comes along who purports to tell things as they are and offer something different then why wouldn't they sit up and listen.

Irony is he went to private school, worked as a banker etc but doesn't seem to affect him. He's probably been the most effective British politician this century, without him Brexit would never have happened. I wouldn't be surprised if his next push is for PR, say Reform get 15-20% and the Greens get 5-7% they could end up with 20%+ of the vote and 1% of the seats - what pricy they ally up and push for PR.

What's really changing now is that lots more younger people are turning to these parties, the leader in France is only 28.

For all that the extreme parties take a lot of stick is it not about time we question why there is a move towards them.
The centralist parties in government are falling over themselves to blame everyone for the state of the world, well you are in power, it's your policies, it's your decisions and actions that are making people move.
As for Farage and his ilk, the masses will find out soon enough, when a politician says they have all the answers, when they sound to good to be true they turn out to be no different from anyone of the rest of them.
Look at all the bright new horizons we were being led to by Clinton, Blair, macron, trudeau, sturgeon, marin, adherne etc Al.
Sex pests, war criminals and soon to be jail bird.
But then it was the right wing media that brought them down, wasn't it.

 

[markysimmo]

It's not really surprising, for years there's been a 2 party system with not a huge amount of difference between them. Each promise to make your lives better yet most people see less opportunity, poorer services, higher house prices etc and are simply fed up. Then when questioned none of them can even give a straight answer to anything. If someone comes along who purports to tell things as they are and offer something different then why wouldn't they sit up and listen.

Irony is he went to private school, worked as a banker etc but doesn't seem to affect him. He's probably been the most effective British politician this century, without him Brexit would never have happened. I wouldn't be surprised if his next push is for PR, say Reform get 15-20% and the Greens get 5-7% they could end up with 20%+ of the vote and 1% of the seats - what pricy they ally up and push for PR.

What's really changing now is that lots more younger people are turning to these parties, the leader in France is only 28.

I genuinely think people have had enough of the Tories/Labour and their continual fudge ups and lies and want a change

 

[Mikey10]

I genuinely think people have had enough of the Tories/Labour and their continual fudge ups and lies and want a change

The polls say different.