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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Bedfordspurs said:
I’ve worked with loads of people who are from our old colony’s and can’t get sponsored to get visas here by companies because of the admin agro, yet they studied here and paid a fortune to be educated here… bonkers
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Graduating students can now stay and work I believe, this is a recent change to what came before and a great idea I think. Is absolutely mad that previously we would provide a good education for the rest of the World and then not let those well educated graduates stay and give us the benefit of their wisdom.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Graduating students can now stay and work I believe, this is a recent change to what came before and a great idea I think. Is absolutely mad that previously we would provide a good education for the rest of the World and then not let those well educated graduates stay and give us the benefit of their wisdom.
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I know
It was mental
And companies didn’t want the agro of sponsoring them
 
SpurMeUp said:
To be honest I think that is still the system we have. Post graduation they have 2 years to get a job but still need sponsorship from a company?
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Could be
I actually saw an Oxford grad at Tesco HQ deported I assume by the “authorities” as Tesco hadn’t applied for his work permit (they came and took him)
He was Jamaican from memory
Super smart lad too
 
@Finney Is Back looks like you are ahead of the game

https://amp.theguardian.com/technol...rotection-from-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-law-bonfire


If Meta follow the likes of Sony, Finnys company and others relocating to the EU, the UK will be in a sorry state. Immigration it seems is the way we stimulate growth post Brexit - the irony is hilarious. We’ve lost business to the EU, lost trade with the EU and lost billions in tax revenue. Do Leave voters think we should pay more tax or make cuts to public services to make up the shortfall?

Reading the Sun this morning it’s transparent that the will of its owner, had and still has, a huge huge role in Brexit. I don’t think we’d have left without the Suns continual anti-EU stories. UK politicians have always courted Rupert Murdock. He has been more powerful in UK politics than the nations leader. But that doesn’t extend to the EU. They don’t give a toss about him and don’t blow him off at every opportunity - as UK politicians have. And so he is personally staunchly anti-EU. Read the Sun today and you can tell the articles are manufactured to placate the owner. The people who wrote the semi-lies in these stories don’t even believe it. But they continue to pump it out. For example, the Sun outlines we can scrap VAT on gas and electricity bills now we’re out the EU. This is lauded as Brexit benefit. The truth is we could have reduced VAT on heating bills while in the EU, with the EU VAT limit at 10%. So under EU law we could have taken 10% off but not reduce VAT on heating any further. Big fuking deal! 1. We never reduced the VAT to 10% that we could have 2. EU nations are simply subsidising heating bills - as are we. And there are no problems giving back more than 20% VAT on heating costs to consumers.

So the Sun manipulates, uses a strong headline, and is desperate to protect Brexit as it flounders. The detail and truth are not important when protecting billionaire owner Murdocks whims.
 
Just perhaps that narrative that leaving the EU was only about gammon faced racists was wrong.

Many people objected to the deeply protectionist and overbearing democratic response of the EU.

Going back into the global swim lane where we have historically been, is a natural consequence of Brexit. Broadly speaking, just as aftershocks cause problems, opportunities arise.

But the world is very welcome to come to these shores, particularly so right now.
 
johnola said:
Many people objected to the deeply protectionist and overbearing democratic response of the EU.
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The majority of people on both side of the debate, won’t even understand your above sentence… not fully.

And that’s one of the main issues I have with Brexit. People didn’t understand it to a level they would need to, in order to be able to make an informed and considered decision about it.

this was exploited and manipulated, by nefarious actors who never had our country’s best interests at heart.

and now the country is in real trouble. People that I respect are talking about the possibility of a 10 year recession… fûcking hell man.
 
johnola said:
Just perhaps that narrative that leaving the EU was only about gammon faced racists was wrong.

Many people objected to the deeply protectionist and overbearing democratic response of the EU.

Going back into the global swim lane where we have historically been, is a natural consequence of Brexit. Broadly speaking, just as aftershocks cause problems, opportunities arise.

But the world is very welcome to come to these shores, particularly so right now.
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nah

still seems the most likely to me
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Could be
I actually saw an Oxford grad at Tesco HQ deported I assume by the “authorities” as Tesco hadn’t applied for his work permit (they came and took him)
He was Jamaican from memory
Super smart lad too
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Do Tescos have highly skilled roles that no current citizen could do? Not about that kid at all (its the corporate sponsorship model im critiqing), just that Tescos aren't exactly a university or EPL club that needs 'global talent'.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Do Tescos have highly skilled roles that no current citizen could do? Not about that kid at all (its the corporate sponsorship model im critiqing), just that Tescos aren't exactly a university or EPL club that needs 'global talent'.
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Yes it was
It was an engineering role
I used to run the engineering procurement team and it’s very specialised actually
Designing technical solutions for complex buildings isn’t just something anyone can do
And Tesco’s was an industry leading global mega business at the time. Retail is scarily complex
 
DTA said:
The majority of people on both side of the debate, won’t even understand your above sentence… not fully.

And that’s one of the main issues I have with Brexit. People didn’t understand it to a level they would need to, in order to be able to make an informed and considered decision about it.

this was exploited and manipulated, by nefarious actors who never had our country’s best interests at heart.

and now the country is in real trouble. People that I respect are talking about the possibility of a 10 year recession… fûcking hell man.
Click to expand...
Its the same way that the EU evolved into an agent of free market corporate power, with no democratic consent or wide conversation about the consequences of that. People need to be alert to and resist all agents (corporate and state) who seek power over them
 
DTA said:
The majority of people on both side of the debate, won’t even understand your above sentence… not fully.

And that’s one of the main issues I have with Brexit. People didn’t understand it to a level they would need to, in order to be able to make an informed and considered decision about it.

this was exploited and manipulated, by nefarious actors who never had our country’s best interests at heart.

and now the country is in real trouble. People that I respect are talking about the possibility of a 10 year recession… fûcking hell man.
Click to expand...

Now that is an apocalyptic outlook.

Obviously Brexit was not worth that should it come to pass.

I agree with you the arguments in relation to Brexit were, like most media led debates, utter gonads. Your comments about invisible nefarious actors may have some truth but it is close to conspiracy. You will also have to accept that arrayed against these pro Brexit interests were stood an immense cast of existing powers with a clearly spotlit stage to make their influence felt.

Despite that effort, the public remained uneasy about the EU. Brexit was in some part a revolt against the direction of travel, and was certainly a failure to make the case of further deeper integration to those with concerns. Bloody minded certainly, but not dark, evil, not even uninformed and not collectively stupid.

Whilst nobody can see the future, trade and immigration are certainly in the human sphere of influence. We could probably go back if we are prepared to pay the price, but not with some hidden agenda to integrate deeper and deeper.

Really the worry for today is the climate - we are not in control of that and should bow down in front of it. How much of that pessimistic forecast is down to the costs and effort to decarbonise so rapidly?
 
SpurMeUp said:
@Finney Is Back looks like you are ahead of the game

https://amp.theguardian.com/technol...rotection-from-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-law-bonfire


If Meta follow the likes of Sony, Finnys company and others relocating to the EU, the UK will be in a sorry state. Immigration it seems is the way we stimulate growth post Brexit - the irony is hilarious. We’ve lost business to the EU, lost trade with the EU and lost billions in tax revenue. Do Leave voters think we should pay more tax or make cuts to public services to make up the shortfall?

Reading the Sun this morning it’s transparent that the will of its owner, had and still has, a huge huge role in Brexit. I don’t think we’d have left without the Suns continual anti-EU stories. UK politicians have always courted Rupert Murdock. He has been more powerful in UK politics than the nations leader. But that doesn’t extend to the EU. They don’t give a toss about him and don’t blow him off at every opportunity - as UK politicians have. And so he is personally staunchly anti-EU. Read the Sun today and you can tell the articles are manufactured to placate the owner. The people who wrote the semi-lies in these stories don’t even believe it. But they continue to pump it out. For example, the Sun outlines we can scrap VAT on gas and electricity bills now we’re out the EU. This is lauded as Brexit benefit. The truth is we could have reduced VAT on heating bills while in the EU, with the EU VAT limit at 10%. So under EU law we could have taken 10% off but not reduce VAT on heating any further. Big fuking deal! 1. We never reduced the VAT to 10% that we could have 2. EU nations are simply subsidising heating bills - as are we. And there are no problems giving back more than 20% VAT on heating costs to consumers.

So the Sun manipulates, uses a strong headline, and is desperate to protect Brexit as it flounders. The detail and truth are not important when protecting billionaire owner Murdocks whims.
Click to expand...
You believe these companies that left and their big earners paid tax here?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yes it was
It was an engineering role
I used to run the engineering procurement team and it’s very specialised actually
Designing technical solutions for complex buildings isn’t just something anyone can do
And Tesco’s was an industry leading global mega business at the time. Retail is scarily complex
Click to expand...
Ok, cool. It was a genuine question
 
Gutter Boy said:
Its the same way that the EU evolved into an agent of free market corporate power, with no democratic consent or wide conversation about the consequences of that. People need to be alert to and resist all agents (corporate and state) who seek power over them
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If the Eu evolved in to an agent of free market power one of the biggest driving forces of that would have been the UK.

The UK was the economically right wing faction of the EU.

look it up.
 
DTA said:
If the Eu evolved in to an agent of free market power one of the biggest driving forces of that would have been the UK.

The UK was the economically right wing faction of the EU.

look it up.
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I dont disagree at all. Although ultimately it even outstripped us, especially in terms of the submission to corporate lobbying and tendering laws design to drain the state

Plus we could always (prior to maastrict) change course away from that with an election, whereas the EU now locks everyone into neoliberalism permanently
 
johnola said:
Now that is an apocalyptic outlook.

Obviously Brexit was not worth that should it come to pass.

I agree with you the arguments in relation to Brexit were, like most media led debates, utter gonad*s. Your comments about invisible nefarious actors may have some truth but it is close to conspiracy. You will also have to accept that arrayed against these pro Brexit interests were stood an immense cast of existing powers with a clearly spotlit stage to make their influence felt.

Despite that effort, the public remained uneasy about the EU. Brexit was in some part a revolt against the direction of travel, and was certainly a failure to make the case of further deeper integration to those with concerns. Bloody minded certainly, but not dark, evil, not even uninformed and not collectively stupid.

Whilst nobody can see the future, trade and immigration are certainly in the human sphere of influence. We could probably go back if we are prepared to pay the price, but not with some hidden agenda to integrate deeper and deeper.

Really the worry for today is the climate - we are not in control of that and should bow down in front of it. How much of that pessimistic forecast is down to the costs and effort to decarbonise so rapidly?
Click to expand...

Its a good post.

I obviously hope that forecast never comes to pass, because well it’s horrific.

i do think the public were ready for change and were unhappy about how things were going. In my view that was due to the aftermath of the 2008 crash which then led to austerity.

A combination of things that simply made peoples lives worse. Those in the south east were shielded from this a little by the low interest rates which boosted house prices and encouraged the tapping of equity. This didn’t happen in most of the north where post 2009 house prices pretty much stagnated until much later. But inequality grew across the board.

so people were angry and needed somewhere to direct that anger. And they were pointed toward this institution they didn’t understand (few of us do, not fully, even now)


We didn’t really care about the EU (on either side) until we were told to do so. That is backed up with statistics by the way.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You believe these companies that left and their big earners paid tax here?
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Yes. Did you read @Finney Is Back post a couple of pages back? He outlined his company paid tax here and is now moving to the EU. Most companies are not massive corporate entities with offshore legal structures. And even if they are, they are paying UK wages with national insurance (a tax), using UK companies to service them (who do pay taxes), and they will be paying council taxes/rates. These companies that have moved are a significant loss. The really funny thing is, the way we make up for it, the one thing the UK uses to grow its economy - its immigration which is higher than ever. The very thing Brexit was supposed to stop :D
 
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