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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Danishfurniturelover said:
Only be in the job till the next election then Labour will walk it.
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I so want this to happen but I really fear that come a general election, Labour just won't cut it. You'd think it would be a walk in the park after the total shambles we have had and will have for the next couple of years, but I'm not convinced Starmer is the man to do it. I don't particularly like him or his take on labour, but I accept that in order to have a chance of winning, the labour party has to play to the centrists. A Labour win but needing to jump into bed with the Lib Dems would be the best outcome now as long as that meant a commitment from labour to change the electoral system so it's no longer FPTP. We have to get away from the current system.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I so want this to happen but I really fear that come a general election, Labour just won't cut it. You'd think it would be a walk in the park after the total shambles we have had and will have for the next couple of years, but I'm not convinced Starmer is the man to do it. I don't particularly like him or his take on labour, but I accept that in order to have a chance of winning, the labour party has to play to the centrists. A Labour win but needing to jump into bed with the Lib Dems would be the best outcome now as long as that meant a commitment from labour to change the electoral system so it's no longer FPTP. We have to get away from the current system.
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problem with moving away from FPTP is it opens the door to extremist parties.
 
DTA said:
problem with moving away from FPTP is it opens the door to extremist parties.
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Does it? Really?

And if it does, does that not represent the democratic voice better anyway.

Also, usually, exposing extremists to the light helps combat their insanity.

It is certainly no worse than what we have now.
 
DTA said:
only extremely shît.
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They are that and the UK should be thankful for this saving grace. Much like their Trumpian brethren their greed and stupidity have precipitated their downfall. It is astounding to me that hard-right policies like the policing, borders or elections bill are not what is causing them harm at the polls. It is the nonsense like party gate or the Paterson stuff that has been their undoing.
Yes, you may get a fringe party in government under PR but in that system, these parties don't hide their intentions. They wear their swastikas proudly and will never be more than bit part players. Under FPTP you get a minority voting in a government that is not representative of the electorate's opinions. It is a truly flawed system.
 
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P.D. said:
Most of them are dumb populist policies that are tailored for the members, many of which are totally unworkable. Rishi is I guess a bit more central though also getting populist now he's losing in the polls.

Truss will get smashed at a general election, Sunak would certainly be an even match for Starmer.
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At this rate, I'd be surprised if Starmer is still there to face either of them in 2 years.
 
Lost Mango said:
Does it? Really?

And if it does, does that not represent the democratic voice better anyway.

Also, usually, exposing extremists to the light helps combat their insanity.

It is certainly no worse than what we have now.
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I don’t agree with that at all. Their views should be shunned and be given no oxygen.

Bringing them into the mainstream conversation just gives them legitimacy… same with terrorist and their world view.
 
Mikey10 said:
A couple of years ago Sunak was seen as being on the far right of the Tory party. He’s now talked about as being at the centre.

Just one sign of the swing to the extreme right that has taken place as the ERG have pulled Johnson’s strings.
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It’s absolutely a swing to the right. And it needs to be addressed. But as bad as this lot are and I have absolutely no love for them, so much so that I actually miss the one nation Tories… and I never thought I would miss any Tory.

they are not fascists not yet anyway.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
The Rishi myth needs revisiting. He had the easiest job during Covid. Turn on the printing press and dish out free money. ('what a guy).
The problem is the systems setup to deliver this help might as well of been a tipper truck from Travis Perkins.

The abuse of the furlough scheme and bounce back loans is staggering. Estimating £17bn could be lost to fraud.
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I agree entirely. I was comparing with the alternative.....Liz Truss!!

Sunak will get us through the short term, maybe medium term, with quick fixes.
I don't think Truss can.

The future is brick under either option.
I'm just saying Sunak can kick the can down the road.
Truss will trip over it.
 
monkeybarry said:
I agree entirely. I was comparing with the alternative.....Liz Truss!!

Sunak will get us through the short term, maybe medium term, with quick fixes.
I don't think Truss can.

The future is brick under either option.
I'm just saying Sunak can kick the can down the road.
Truss will trip over it.
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Sunak, disappointingly, doesn't seem to understand the value in competing internationally on taxation rates.

Truss probably doesn't understand any of that sentence, but those choosing her policies for her do.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I so want this to happen but I really fear that come a general election, Labour just won't cut it. You'd think it would be a walk in the park after the total shambles we have had and will have for the next couple of years, but I'm not convinced Starmer is the man to do it. I don't particularly like him or his take on labour, but I accept that in order to have a chance of winning, the labour party has to play to the centrists. A Labour win but needing to jump into bed with the Lib Dems would be the best outcome now as long as that meant a commitment from labour to change the electoral system so it's no longer FPTP. We have to get away from the current system.
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My worry about changing from first past the post is becoming like Italy and the madness that is their political system.
 
DTA said:
It’s absolutely a swing to the right. And it needs to be addressed. But as bad as this lot are and I have absolutely no love for them, so much so that I actually miss the one nation Tories… and I never thought I would miss any Tory.

they are not fascists not yet anyway.
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Yeah they are just crap. Not fascist. They are actually as they are mocked, a bunch of toffs who want to run things. I think they just say stuff that they think appeals to their fan base without actually believing it. I don't think any of them have had an actual original thought in their entire lives.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I so want this to happen but I really fear that come a general election, Labour just won't cut it. You'd think it would be a walk in the park after the total shambles we have had and will have for the next couple of years, but I'm not convinced Starmer is the man to do it. I don't particularly like him or his take on labour, but I accept that in order to have a chance of winning, the labour party has to play to the centrists. A Labour win but needing to jump into bed with the Lib Dems would be the best outcome now as long as that meant a commitment from labour to change the electoral system so it's no longer FPTP. We have to get away from the current system.
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Agree with this over Starmer, the reason that Boris got away with so much is that Starmer is a wet fish and comes across as one.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I so want this to happen but I really fear that come a general election, Labour just won't cut it. You'd think it would be a walk in the park after the total shambles we have had and will have for the next couple of years, but I'm not convinced Starmer is the man to do it. I don't particularly like him or his take on labour, but I accept that in order to have a chance of winning, the labour party has to play to the centrists. A Labour win but needing to jump into bed with the Lib Dems would be the best outcome now as long as that meant a commitment from labour to change the electoral system so it's no longer FPTP. We have to get away from the current system.
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I think they might lean on Wes Streeting quite a bit in an election campaign, a bit like Johnson started doing with Sunak in 19
 
DTA said:
I don’t agree with that at all. Their views should be shunned and be given no oxygen.

Bringing them into the mainstream conversation just gives them legitimacy… same with terrorist and their world view.
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Yes, especially in this (social) media landscape.

The BBC feel compelled to platform the loons in the name of “balance”, maybe a nice seat on Question Time, the prime minister’s sister then has them on her radio show, the prime minister’s former employer then gives them a column and hey presto, the fringe has been news-washed into the mainstream and the Overton window has been yanked further to the right.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
Yes, especially in this (social) media landscape.

The BBC feel compelled to platform the loons in the name of “balance”, maybe a nice seat on Question Time, the prime minister’s sister then has them on her radio show, the prime minister’s former employer then gives them a column and hey presto, the fringe has been news-washed into the mainstream and the Overton window has been yanked further to the right.
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That's not how the Overton Window concept works.

The window is a measure of the bookends of political opinion that the public finds acceptable. The public shifts the window, politicians have to act within it to be acceptable to them.

If those opinions have been publicised and any significant portion of the public find them acceptable, then the window has already shifted that way.
 
scaramanga said:
That's not how the Overton Window concept works.

The window is a measure of the bookends of political opinion that the public finds acceptable. The public shifts the window, politicians have to act within it to be acceptable to them.

If those opinions have been publicised and any significant portion of the public find them acceptable, then the window has already shifted that way.
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But a complacent media can unwittingly introduce a hitherto largely unconsidered position and a complicit media can do so intentionally. This leads and foments opinion that actually has a smaller base and is more fringe than it actually is. So a hard, small base is misrepresented as having a foothold that it doesn’t really have.
 
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