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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Sort Ireland, so we get into the next Brexit problem? That would be the Exit agreement. Followed by the EU trade agreement. ...and then Replace 73 RoW trade agreements.

Then try to and undo the damage to our economy and be able to spend more on public services (would have exited austerity if it weren’t for this gonads) while simultaneously impairing UK free trade. No one can outline how Brexit does anything to make up for lost free trade. Why is that?

Brexit is one problem after another. Would take a decade to get over it, and the immigration thing is last on their list.

Have any of the Brexit promises come true? Negotiations will be quick and easy. Fail. Parliament will take back control. What a mess. If this is control, give me the EU and our stable mostly sovereign parliament any day. The United Kingdom wont be affected by Brexit. Fail. Ireland and then Scotland will have reasonable claims for independence, and take it to be with the worlds largest trading block.

How can anyone back this charade? When will the penny drop?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Sort Ireland, so we get into the next Brexit problem? That would be the Exit agreement. Followed by the EU trade agreement. ...and then Replace 73 RoW trade agreements.
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No, that order's wrong.

We're already working on the RoW agreements.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm betting they'll take significantly less time than EU ones do.
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Sure that makes sense. We only have us and the other country to satisfy, rather than 29 nations. On the flip side we have a less powerful bargaining position bringing 50m consumers to the table, rather than 500m+, and our government has to do all the leg work. The point is it is all hassle that takes up government time and money (our money) when they could be doing other things, and what do we get at the end of it? Similar, or probably worse trade terms to now. Certainly impaired trade with the most important affluent market on our doorstep. And immigration - which was a key factor to the vote - remains high from the RoW which we have always controlled.

Let me get this straight, we get nothing back from Brexit, it impairs our trade and economy, degrades the UK's standing internationally, and causes years of nonsense and hassle. Yet people back it. It is one of the largest con jobs of our political era.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Sure that makes sense. We only have us and the other country to satisfy, rather than 29 nations. On the flip side we have a less powerful bargaining position bringing 50m consumers to the table, rather than 500m+, and our government has to do all the leg work. The point is it is all hassle that takes up government time and money (our money) when they could be doing other things, and what do we get at the end of it? Similar, or probably worse trade terms to now. Certainly impaired trade with the most important affluent market on our doorstep. And immigration - which was a key factor to the vote - remains high from the RoW which we have always controlled.

Let me get this straight, we get nothing back from Brexit, it impairs our trade and economy, degrades the UK's standing internationally, and causes years of nonsense and hassle. Yet people back it. It is one of the largest con jobs of our political era.
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Why would we want the government doing other things? The government should be gradually removing itself from existence until it has virtually no impact on our lives.
 
scaramanga said:
Why would we want the government doing other things? The government should be gradually removing itself from existence until it has virtually no impact on our lives.
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Hold up! Brexit makes our government bigger. Bigger department for Trade and Industry required. Lots of new and expensive lawyers and negotiators. Bigger Customs! More regulation, more red tape. This isn't really aligned with your mojo is it? Huge and varied changes to UK legislation will affect every Government department from Education to Agriculture. Breixt will tie up our government for years. Looking at things like how to compensate Lamb farmers. Dealing with supply of drugs and workers into the NHS etc etc ad infinitum. In short, the government will need to be bigger just to stand still.

While this happens, and for the past few years, things like improving education in schools, or how the NHS works, are on hold. Which means we are going backward. And remind me, in real terms, what do the people get back for all this? What is the payoff?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Hold up! Brexit makes our government bigger. Bigger department for Trade and Industry required. Lots of new and expensive lawyers and negotiators. Bigger Customs! More regulation, more red tape. This isn't really aligned with your mojo is it? Huge and varied changes to UK legislation will affect every Government department from Education to Agriculture. Breixt will tie up our government for years. Looking at things like how to compensate Lamb farmers. Dealing with supply of drugs and workers into the NHS etc etc ad infinitum. In short, the government will need to be bigger just to stand still.

While this happens, and for the past few years, things like improving education in schools, or how the NHS works, are on hold. Which means we are going backward. And remind me, in real terms, what do the people get back for all this? What is the payoff?
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More regulation and red tape! More legislation! :D

I don't think you've been paying attention.
 
scaramanga said:
More regulation and red tape! More legislation! :D

I don't think you've been paying attention.
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You will know that if you want to hire a worker from Poland today before you go home, there is no red tape. None. Zero. You hire them, end of. That won't be there tomorrow. You will have red tape, where there was none.

If you want to send or receive items from France today - you just send it, or they send it to you. No questions asked, no border checks. Most things arrive within a day or two (which is the foundation of most of our supermarkets). Tomorrow, we will have a whole new customs setup that will have a goods border. That is what you want, isn't it? More red tape. More cost. More hassle. Moreover, we will have to maintain tariffs on goods with the EU - more red tape that is not here today.

Then if we want to adjust and keep lamb farming alive in the UK, we will need to agree and pass new legislation that fairly compensates lamb farmers. That will take time. In fact, if all UK farmers don't have EU Common Agricultural Policy grants, there will be reams of new laws for us to put in place - develop our own agricultural policy - simply to maintain UK food production. To stand still, to have what we have now. More legislation required! And it's not like we can take our time, lamb farmers will go out of business if government doesn't act. And then do you do anything for car workers? Does legislation need to be introduced to protect the 100,000 odd jobs in the UK car industry? More legislation would be required. And it will run and run. At the end of it, we're in a worse position. There is no Brexit payoff. No great light at the end of all this. If there was we could articulate it without saying "Singapore" (which only shows up the lack of payoff and brexit vision)

Maybe you've been a naughty boy reading too much-Barclay brother biased Telegraph, and not been paying enough attention to reality?
 
I think if a party wanted to win the upcoming election their best policy would be to promise a referendum with only leave options on it - easier to spin and will lead to a soft brexit that will reclaim the centre ground which is where elections are won and lost. No party will actually do it of course.
 
P.D. said:
I think if a party wanted to win the upcoming election their best policy would be to promise a referendum with only leave options on it - easier to spin and will lead to a soft brexit that will reclaim the centre ground which is where elections are won and lost. No party will actually do it of course.
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That's a very good suggestion and actually, I can't see why it couldn't be a viable course for the tories to take (assuming of course that the remainers get their way and manage to frustrate this latest 'deadline').

As you say, it would make a compelling election offer to pretty much everyone outside of hardcore remainers. Furthermore though, it would really help to bring things to a head with EU - because they'd actually have to negotiate seriously for once, with any agreed deal then being put up against no deal in a subsequent referendum that would then be enacted. Under that scenario, it would have to be a serious, final negotiation. If the tories get their mandate via an election as a result of making such an offer, the EU's remainer friends won't be able to help them as they've done up to this point.

Could be interesting...
 
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Rorschach said:
Hehe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181849756043300864
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Love it. I am almost convinced to support Brexit after that :)

@parklane81 and @P.D. why not get behind Labours position, it allows all Brexit positions and a fair vote on all of them? Can have no deal, Mays deal, a softer Coybyn deal. Or is there a fear that people wouldn't want to leave, and you feel like we've 'banked' leave now? Which I appreciate. What I don't understand is what you are chasing from Brexit. What positives do you think will come from it, that keeps your hanging on rooting for it, when so far Brexit has been one big pile of steaming shyte?

In short, what wins are there from all this? What benefits do we - or you personally - having coming our/your way from Brexit? Did you short the pound and want an exit so you make millions? Do you have a company that benefits from a lower value pound (not naming names @scaramanga )? What is it you get from Brexit? Less people coming in from Europe is a valid reason imo. Probably the best reason one could give. Are there any other things we get back from all this nonsense that you can outline?

Do you feel let down by the likes of Mark Francois, Steve Baker and the ERG? They stopped a brexit that would have closed our borders to the EU (Mays deal), are they on your side? Do they represent you? And what do we think about those who said leaving would be simple, that German car companies would be knocking down our door begging for a deal. That french winemakers and Italian prosecco producers would mean EU negotiations would be a cinch. If they got this so wrong (we can categorically say that they did now) do you trust them on their other claims?
 
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The level playing field and state aid components are the parts of Mays deal that made it Bino. They are what needs to go. That's what the Belgium simpleton guy was having a fit about about the Johnson plans today, really letting the mask slip
 
P.D. said:
I think if a party wanted to win the upcoming election their best policy would be to promise a referendum with only leave options on it - easier to spin and will lead to a soft brexit that will reclaim the centre ground which is where elections are won and lost. No party will actually do it of course.
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A lot of MP's will not allow it, after all they have spent 3 years avoiding the majority vote. To many self serving members who do not want us out and will keep screwing things up.
 
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