Players or Manager?

[Mumorn]

I'll give you Rose.
Eriksen has gone backwards in my opinion.
Mason could well be playing to the same level he was last season.
Bentaleb I'd say is the same.

Eriksen all round game has improved. He's stopped doing nothing all game then popping up a goal and living off his free kicks, he's offered much more this season, from his work rate, his defensive work and making more of a difference in games, plus his goals haven't dried up.

 

[Jordinho]

It's sort of a catch 22. The form of individual players are suffering because the team isn't functioning, which again isn't helped by players being out of form.

Again, regardless of who is manager, we need to make some adjustments to the squad. If we fill the 2 or 3 most obvious gaps and six months later there's still no improvements, then questions should have course be asked. Right now there's not much to go on. Whether our players are right or wrong for how we attempt to play, too many are simply not performing.

 

[Mumorn]

But to answer the OPs question, I'd say it was the players. We have too many players who are happy to receive a pay cheque. Like someone once said, they come to Spurs for an easy ride. Too many players who don't necessarily care. They failed under AVB, they failed under Sherwood and arguably failing to produce their best under Pochettino.

He needs his own team, his own players. Keep the ones who want to go to battle, ones who admire the training, the club and want to fight for the team to produce the best. And **** off those who aren't into the philosophy. It's why I wouldn't mind Moreno, he knows Poch, he trusts him. And it's why I'd have no objections over signing Rodriguez

 

[camspur]

Both Bentaleb and Chadli have improved on the back of having playing time the latter end of last season, Naughton was only ever going to improve through playing more Walker's injury was just what Naughton needed to get that run.

I really don't see any improvement at all in the overall team performance and that is the most worrying thing, it's no good 2 or 3 players stepping up to the mark if the others fail to play. It's not the manager or the system that is the problem but an apparent lack of desire from the players to put in 90 minutes of professional football as a cohesive unit. We see flashes of brilliance followed by an unnerving practice of over playing the ball and giving it straight to the opponent who hits us on the counter.

For a football team they seem to be sadly lacking the most important thing BALLS.

 

[Modric THFC]

I don't subscribe to the idea that managers must be allowed to overhaul a squad when they're appointed. After all, most of them only go for players they've signed before that are no better than the ones they're replacing.

In this case though it's apparent that changes are needed, regardless of who is manager. Until dross has been sold and harmony restored it's far too soon to be drawing any conclusions on Poch. This IS a transitional season and the calls for short term results must not be allowed to derail that process. Let's fix the foundations properly this time.

A manager/coach should be able to get rid of a player if he doesn't suit their system or is upsetting the culture in the dressing room.

Like you say though they shouldn't be able to bring in a load if their own players who are just similar.

Like in a normal workplace a manager should be able to get rid of someone they can't work with but they are not in charge of recruitment.

 

[scaramanga]

Mate the fans will never be patient enough to allow the youth to come through.

Sensibly too.

Even the very best academies bring through a top player or two every few years. The overwhelming chances are that none of those players listed will be better than we could buy for a few million as adults.

The point of the academy is that it will hopefully produce enough PL/Championship quality players to pay for itself with the odd Bale type coming through every now and then.

To expect any more of our academy would be overly expectant and setting oneself up for disappointment.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Our youth sides are stacked at every age group and Poch has shown to that he's willing to bring them through. Veljkovic, Onomah, Winks, Carter-Vickers, Walker-Peters, Yahaya, Azzaoui, Edwards, Harrison, Oakley-Booth, Tanganga, Bennetts, Sterling are just a few names of players who could make it into the first team in years to come, we'll no longer need to go out and spend millions on a player to fill a gap. It's time we started to think long term, that's our only chance of overhauling the big spenders.

its also the only way we have half a chance of keeping any players that blossom into stars.

liverpool managed to retain the likes of gerard because of his affinity to the club. I'm sure you ****neys, or kids who have grown up in london and come through the youth team, will be less likely to start heading for the exits the first time their names are linked to real madrid on newsnow.

i'm behind this strategy, there just isnt another way.

 

[metalgear]

i'm old school and say manager over players as he is the only one capable of seeing the forest from the trees and to ensure that everyone operates as a unit.

for us there is the complication of "player transfer by committee" ... that isn't that easy to integrate.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Mate the fans will never be patient enough to allow the youth to come through.

Fans endured 1994-2004, when we tended to finish about 12th and had no direction. We might shed a few fairweathers back to Chelsea or City or wherever they came from, but that's no big deal. Proper fans should see the bigger picture

 

[Cochise]

I think the standard of football has picked up recently. There is a lot more quick, one touch football on show, the defence seem way more capable of playing the ball out from the back and there is good movement in the middle third. Where we fall down at the moment is creating clear cut chances. We do do it more often than people like to think, but a combination of the wrong choice being made with the final pass or poor finishing has restricted our goal tally. I'm hopeful that by the end of the year we will start to open up teams more, but I think we need a couple of signings in those front 4 positions.

Under AVB there was a lot of static football with a very slow build up and we failed to break down teams, something which we are looking better at doing this term. Under Sherwood we mixed up our football to play directly at times, long balls forward for Ade and Kane, with plenty of crosses. Sherwood worked to our strengths but our build up play along the deck still looked as clueless as it did under AVB.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think the standard of football has picked up recently. There is a lot more quick, one touch football on show, the defence seem way more capable of playing the ball out from the back and there is good movement in the middle third. Where we fall down at the moment is creating clear cut chances. We do do it more often than people like to think, but a combination of the wrong choice being made with the final pass or poor finishing has restricted our goal tally. I'm hopeful that by the end of the year we will start to open up teams more, but I think we need a couple of signings in those front 4 positions.

Under AVB there was a lot of static football with a very slow build up and we failed to break down teams, something which we are looking better at doing this term. Under Sherwood we mixed up our football to play directly at times, long balls forward for Ade and Kane, with plenty of crosses. Sherwood worked to our strengths but our build up play along the deck still looked as clueless as it did under AVB.

Agree.

I think the quick transitioning play of Mason and Bentaleb has improved us significantly, as has the composed ballplaying of Fazio, Verts and Davies.

There have been signs of a front 4 clicking (Everton, City), but it's not there quite yet.

 

[Roland Beurre]

A Dave Mackay or Roy Keane type leader would be bloody handy, but I'd settle for an Edgar Davids has-been who is surviving at the top on willpower and muscle memory.

 

[Roy1983]

Fans endured 1994-2004, when we tended to finish about 12th and had no direction. We might shed a few fairweathers back to Chelsea or City or wherever they came from, but that's no big deal. Proper fans should see the bigger picture

Very well said.

 

[Gutter Boy]

A Dave Mackay or Roy Keane type leader would be bloody handy, but I'd settle for an Edgar Davids has-been who is surviving at the top on willpower and muscle memory.

What about the big Brazilian lad at QPR?

For whatever reason Poch didn't fancy our good old-fashioned DM. He seems to prefer mobile harriers, who are also ballplayers.

 

[Robspur12]

What about the big Brazilian lad at QPR?

For whatever reason Poch didn't fancy our good old-fashioned DM. He seems to prefer mobile harriers, who are also ballplayers.

I think Poch got rid of Sandro because of his injuries more specifically maybe the type of injuries he sustains. Isn't he injured again at QPR? I don't think it was to do with him not being a "ball player" tbh otherwise why would he have kept Dembele or Capoue over Sandro. I keep going on about this but I think Poch manages muscle injuries very well. Against besiktas yesterday I noticed when the lights went out the first time our players were going through warm up drills whilst the besiktas players were standing around on the pitch.

 

[Raziel]

But to answer the OPs question, I'd say it was the players. We have too many players who are happy to receive a pay cheque. Like someone once said, they come to Spurs for an easy ride. Too many players who don't necessarily care. They failed under AVB, they failed under Sherwood and arguably failing to produce their best under Pochettino.

He needs his own team, his own players. Keep the ones who want to go to battle, ones who admire the training, the club and want to fight for the team to produce the best. And **** off those who aren't into the philosophy. It's why I wouldn't mind Moreno, he knows Poch, he trusts him. And it's why I'd have no objections over signing Rodriguez

Not sure I agree, I think talented players see Spurs as a stepping stone (in the past -> Berbs/Modric/Carrick/etc.), in the current squad I could see Lloris/Eriksen/Lamela/Verts all having at least thought "if Spurs as a team doesn't make CL, at least I will have a good opportunity to move on to bigger things"

And quite honestly that's what has me concerned, if players (Jan I'm looking at you) who are in their own shop window aren't being motivated, it comes back to the manager a bit.

People keep talking about Poch needing "his squad" yet when he was appointed Levy was very clear on the point of him being here to improve what we already have. He has already dumped Sandro & Holtby, if we are now saying he needs to dump another 8 or 9 players, what's the point?

And finally to the comment of being 6 months into an overhall, we are actually 2.5 years into an overhaul and still don't look better.

 

[DTA]

Not sure I agree, I think talented players see Spurs as a stepping stone (in the past -> Berbs/Modric/Carrick/etc.), in the current squad I could see Lloris/Eriksen/Lamela/Verts all having at least thought "if Spurs as a team doesn't make CL, at least I will have a good opportunity to move on to bigger things"

And quite honestly that's what has me concerned, if players (Jan I'm looking at you) who are in their own shop window aren't being motivated, it comes back to the manager a bit.

People keep talking about Poch needing "his squad" yet when he was appointed Levy was very clear on the point of him being here to improve what we already have. He has already dumped Sandro & Holtby, if we are now saying he needs to dump another 8 or 9 players, what's the point?

And finally to the comment of being 6 months into an overhall, we are actually 2.5 years into an overhaul and still don't look better.

We look a lot worse.

 

[indianspur]

I think that it is a decent squad but samey, short on real quality and short on leaders. I think that Sherwood called it exactly right in this respect. I think both Sherwood and Poch promoting youth above establish international players backs this up.

this..

 

[Raziel]

this..

You think Lloris, Vert, Walker, Eriksen, Ade shows a lack of quality in squad?
Add Soldado, Lamela, Lennon who are proven quality either elsewhere or in previous squads

Lack of leadership/experience I agree with
Lack of a quality DM (but Poch sold our best DM in a decade)

It's my original point, someone may say "Lennon is ****" but when we get to 14 players are ****/lazy/untalented/etc when all of them are proven internationals, almost all have shown it at high levels at some point, I think the manager has to take the blame

 

[indianspur]

Not sure I agree, I think talented players see Spurs as a stepping stone (in the past -> Berbs/Modric/Carrick/etc.), in the current squad I could see Lloris/Eriksen/Lamela/Verts all having at least thought "if Spurs as a team doesn't make CL, at least I will have a good opportunity to move on to bigger things"

And quite honestly that's what has me concerned, if players (Jan I'm looking at you) who are in their own shop window aren't being motivated, it comes back to the manager a bit.

People keep talking about Poch needing "his squad" yet when he was appointed Levy was very clear on the point of him being here to improve what we already have. He has already dumped Sandro & Holtby, if we are now saying he needs to dump another 8 or 9 players, what's the point?

And finally to the comment of being 6 months into an overhall, we are actually 2.5 years into an overhaul and still don't look better.

Yes if Poch was brought in to get the best out of this squad then that was a bad choice from Levy because it was clear for all to see that the majority of our players don't have the capabilities to play how Poch had his Saints team playing. I and some others said before an appointment was made that maybe someone like De Boer might have been a better fit with this group, and especially as he would have had his 2 best players from Ajax already installed at Spurs. They would have been 2 key allies in the dressing room, on the pitch and im sure it would have been easier to transfer his philosophies to the rest.