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Players or Manager?

Most games are won or lost on the slenderest of margins . I think Hoddle got it right when he said that Spurs are missing one, maybe two special players .

Look at the poll list on the One player from history - 2014/15 edition thread. You have one or two of those forwards in your team and we'd win tonight, just as we would've done at the weekend against Palace . In fact, if it were Palace that had, that special forward player, I'm pretty sure they would've beaten us.

In this game you have to have a player that can put the ball in the back of the net. Having one you'll see the confidence spread throughout the squad, like a wildfire. Knowing that they're playing behind a goal machine is one of the best feelings for a defender and midfielder. The players at the club are no where near as bad as some would portray them to be and they would quickly get even better if we had a goalscorer.

Nobby and Ade are letting their team mates down with their lack of goals.
 
I think our first XI is relatively strong now. We are still lacking a top class CF, CB and winger, but the rest of the team is strong. However, our back-up is **** for the most part. As evidenced by tonight's game.

Soldado, Dembele, Adebayor, Kaboul and Lennon have all proven themselves to be outstanding players in the past. But they have all underperformed for some time now, and under multiple managers, which highlights that perhaps they are finished at this level. My gut feeling is that Dembele and Lennon can still be saved and become useful squad players again, but I am losing faith in the others. Sometimes, top players just go off the boil and no matter who manages them, or who they play for, they just can't get back to where they were - see Torres, Hleb, Kluivert. Doesn't even necessarily need to be because of injury. I don't know what's happened to Soldado, but after a year and a half, with three different managers, we've still not seen anything resembling the goalscorer we signed.
 
Id love nothing more than that to be a reality but we're 15 games in to a season and im already seeing supporters on another board calling for the managers head - a large section of our fanbase just won't accept anything other than immediate results - building a team around young players who will naturally have inconsistent performances? At this club? Would only end in tears

Edit - in reply to Rossi
 
Robspur12 said:
Mate the fans will never be patient enough to allow the youth to come through.
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What are they going to do? I'm not saying we sell everyone and play the u18s but over time for every three we sell, they can be replaced by one player of real quality safe in the knowledge that we have a conveyor belt of talented kids coming through. We have 25 odd first team players but most of us couldn't care less if half of them were sold off tomorrow.
 
billyiddo said:
Id love nothing more than that to be a reality but we're 15 games in to a season and im already seeing supporters on another board calling for the managers head - a large section of our fanbase just won't accept anything other than immediate results - building a team around young players who will naturally have inconsistent performances? At this club? Would only end in tears

Edit - in reply to Rossi
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Spurs fans call for the manager's head after every loss, what's new. Complaining online isn't going to change anything, fans can moan all they like but they won't stop the club doing what they think is best.

Oh and can you stop changing my avatar please?
 
Rossi22 said:
Spurs fans call for the manager's head after every loss, what's new. Complaining online isn't going to change anything, fans can moan all they like but they won't stop the club doing what they think is best.

Oh and can you stop changing my avatar please?
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We have the most fickle fans in the land. I have a what's app conversation with a group of mates who go plenty (I have a season ticket) and **** me do they moan... It's like their life depends on it and they can't see beyond the last game. They also change opinions on players every 30 minutes. It's actually quite scary as there all good lads

I personally think if we started to bring more youth in and they showed ability the fans would back it. Let's face it we ain't gonna win the league any time soon. What it would need is clear communication from the board around pricing of tickets not increasing (as wages would be lower) and confirmation of a long term commitment to these players.

I've heard Harry Kane this season called the best thing since sliced bread by guys who wouldn't let him tie their shoes a year ago so fans opinions can be changed quickly... But only by performances (hence why I moan a lot about Lamella). Mason is a favourite with most (other than Grimsby who is entitled to his opinion) because he came in, worked hard and was better than those he replaced. If we have youngsters that can do it then we will back them
 
Rossi22 said:
Spurs fans call for the manager's head after every loss, what's new. Complaining online isn't going to change anything, fans can moan all they like but they won't stop the club doing what they think is best.

Oh and can you stop changing my avatar please?
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I didn't change your avatar - but you're stuck with it until we next pick up a win
 
Players. They simply aint good enough. They were but were sold, replaced with players who simply put are not very good. Our squad is on par with stokes/sunderlands/villa IMO. You can bring up the 'on paper just underperforming' argument but IMO I've not seen anything as far as time in England from chadli paulinho soldado lamela chireces Stambouli or capoue for them to warrant a 'decent on paper just not in form' tag.
 
I don't think half our fans will be happy until we win the league and even then a good 10% will still complain about it being done with the wrong formation etc.
 
It's about player versus manager but it's about who has control.

Players have no problem going behind the managers back to Levy.
They think they are more valuable than he is and sometimes to Levy they are.
Ramos, AVB and Sherwood all went after they lost the dressing room.
A systems manager like Poch will never succeed unless he has control. He is not about putting the best eleven out with instructions to just play your game. That was Redknapp, all man management and basic tactics and it worked. But it can only get you so far.

Poch needs his players to buy into his high pressing game. They need to be prepared to run and run every game. They need to learn play as a team in a system with meticulous detail.
Imagine Guardiola trying to implement his system if his players didn't respect him. The players would just turn up and do their own thing. It would be a disjointed mess.

This is what Poch is up against as a systems manager. But at least it looks like he's spent the first 5 months seeing who actually is buying into his system and who is capable of playing it.
Either Levy believes in it and the other players are sent on their way regardless of their value or we get in a Redknapp style man manager who uses minimum tactics.
 
I don't subscribe to the idea that managers must be allowed to overhaul a squad when they're appointed. After all, most of them only go for players they've signed before that are no better than the ones they're replacing.

In this case though it's apparent that changes are needed, regardless of who is manager. Until dross has been sold and harmony restored it's far too soon to be drawing any conclusions on Poch. This IS a transitional season and the calls for short term results must not be allowed to derail that process. Let's fix the foundations properly this time.
 
players or manager has been the reason why we have been so poor recently.

its about the players and a manger functioning as a unit.

the DOF arrangement complicates it because you have player recruitment done by another guy outside of that unit.
 
Serious question. Has Poch done anything in his (admittedly short) time here to warrant being called a 'good coach'?
 
Mulletperm said:
I'm not being an ****. But who do you think has improved?
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Rose has improved all round. Eriksen has improved the defensive side of his game and stopped bring lazy. On last season? Vertonghen Is a completely different player though I imagine that's because our current manager is clever enough to play him in the correct position. I think Naughton has improved too. Then there's Mason who was at a league one team last season and as some would agree with me on here Bentaleb has improved on last year too, though it could have just come from experience then being coached every day.
 
I'll give you Rose.
Eriksen has gone backwards in my opinion.
Mason could well be playing to the same level he was last season.
Bentaleb I'd say is the same.
 
Mulletperm said:
Serious question. Has Poch done anything in his (admittedly short) time here to warrant being called a 'good coach'?
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Who can tell if any improvements are down to Poch or just a purple patch most players have at some time.

Some individuals look better but other than in flashes then the only game where the whole team have clicked is against Everton.




Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
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