OT: What next for Harry?

[Kingdawson]

Look, Harry achieved some great results with us, but he also failed at vital moments. Regardless of all that, Levy and the board wanted to go with a different approach and that's all I care about. I'm just tired of all the attempts to brand posters as 'anti Harry'. It's possible to not be entirely positive or negative about a topic or a person. I reserve the right take digs at him for anything he says or does that's stupid. That doesn't mean I have an irrational hatred towards everything about him or don't appreciate what he got right for us.

pardon?

you can say and feel how you want tbh but you felt Levy would be unhappy with his transfer dealings based on value for money. I've looked at his signings solely on value for money and have concluded that you're wrong imo and backed it up. No biggie.

 

[africanspurs]

Look, Harry achieved some great results with us, but he also failed at vital moments. Regardless of all that, Levy and the board wanted to go with a different approach and that's all I care about. I'm just tired of all the attempts to brand posters as 'anti Harry'. It's possible to not be entirely positive or negative about a topic or a person. I reserve the right take digs at him for anything he says or does that's stupid. That doesn't mean I have an irrational hatred towards everything about him or don't appreciate what he got right for us.

lets go back to the whole he bought badly thing

its comments like that like i said i feel people 'make up' and just throw out there just because they have a concept of the man, not the manager, that they meld into the latter.

so you made a statement....he bought badly....back it up somehow if it wasnt one of the "made up" comments just to smear redknapp. you dont have to if you dont want to, but i am just saying...that along with quite a few others just doesnt add up to me.

MOST of his buys contributed to our team at one time of another in significant ways

value for money? i dont know what this means....were the players bad value for the amount we spent on them ? or were they just bad?

 

[Spursalot]

Well then i'll join you and also take a "Levy way" of looking at it.

Friedel = Free.....can sell for nothing
Kaboul = 6m ...can sell for £12m plus
walker = 4m...can sell for £12m plus
Naughton = 4m ....can sell for 5m plus
Gallas = Free...can sell for nothing
Nelsen = Free...sold for nothing
Bassong = 8m...sold for 5m
Chimbonda = 2.5m...sold for 2.5m
Kranjcar = 2.5m....sold for 5.7m
Pienaar = 2.5m ..sold for 4.5m
Palacios = 12m ..sold for 10m
Parker = 5m....can sell for 5m plus
Sandro = 8m....can sell for 15m plus
VDV = 8M ....sold for 10m
Defoe = 9m....can sell for 10m plus
Keane = 12m ...sold for 3.5m
Crouch = 10m ...sold for 10m



So i've taken the Daniel Levy way of looking at his signings and i still don't get how you've arrived at that conclusion.

I feel sad.. It says i can't give +1..


Looks pretty accurate, and that's just financially and ignoring the fact that players like defoe have scored a buttload of goals..

 

[africanspurs]

' infact some managers like avb make brick work of good players...fact.'


Maybe you were talking about Chelsea, i don't entirely know. Fair enough, it just seemed out of left field in a thing about Harry.

the reason i used AVB is because without even thinking about i can link a correlation between people that had little acknowledgemnet of harry's good points with those that will overly congratulate AVB for every little thing

i am almost certain JOrdinho loves AVB...he used Harry making players play to a high level which matched their qualities as something to take away from what harry acheived with us. which to me sounds totally off. thats actually the sign of a GOOD man manager.

so i just used AVB taking good players in chelsea and making them get bad overall results...but at the same time doesnt mean that what he does when he takes good players to play well shouldnt be respected and applauded

but you're right, there was no need for it. AVB is doing quite well with us IMO..

 

[africanspurs]

I feel sad.. It says i can't give +1..


Looks pretty accurate, and that's just financially and ignoring the fact that players like defoe have scored a buttload of goals..

or that players like Niko and bassong were KEY in getting us to CL.

 

[Spursalot]

the reason i used AVB is because without even thinking about i can link a correlation between people that had little acknowledgemnet of harry's good points with those that will overly congratulate AVB for every little thing

i am almost certain JOrdinho loves AVB...he used Harry making players play to a high level which matched their qualities as something to take away from what harry acheived with us. which to me sounds totally off. thats actually the sign of a GOOD man manager.

so i just used AVB taking good players in chelsea and making them get bad overall results...but at the same time doesnt mean that what he does when he takes good players to play well shouldnt be respected and applauded

but you're right, there was no need for it. AVB is doing quite well with us IMO..

That's cool, if i'd realised it was his time at Chelsea i'd probably not have mentioned it.

 

[Kingdawson]

the reason i used AVB is because without even thinking about i can link a correlation between people that had little acknowledgemnet of harry's good points with those that will overly congratulate AVB for every little thing

i am almost certain JOrdinho loves AVB...he used Harry making players play to a high level which matched their qualities as something to take away from what harry acheived with us. which to me sounds totally off. thats actually the sign of a GOOD man manager.

so i just used AVB taking good players in chelsea and making them get bad overall results...but at the same time doesnt mean that what he does when he takes good players to play well shouldnt be respected and applauded

but you're right, there was no need for it. AVB is doing quite well with us IMO..

That's a very good point actually and i didn't think of it like that.

When Redknapp achieves what he did people (Steff and Jordinho i specifically remember as two) were saying 'well he had fantastic players and he achieved what was expected with those group of players'...but when AVB failed with a group of quality players people were saying it was because of the egotistical players, john Terry, everyone against him etc etc.

Actually i'm going to look through the AVB thread and see if those 2 were 2 of the ones that did that because i simply can't remember.

 

[Spursalot]

That's a very good point actually and i didn't think of it like that.

When Redknapp achieves what he did people (Steff and Jordinho i specifically remember as two) were saying 'well he had fantastic players and he achieved what was expected with those group of players'...but when AVB failed with a group of quality players people were saying it was because of the egotistical players, john Terry, everyone against him etc etc.

Actually i'm going to look through the AVB thread and see if those 2 were 2 of the ones that did that because i simply can't remember.

It's not a particularly good point imo. To know that the Chelsea players egos weren't part of the reason AVB failed you would actually have had to be there watching and listening to them.


The situations would not be the same if it was true, unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to prove, which is where the line of inquiry dies off a bit..


It would be a case of stating the obvious.

Players who wanted to play for a manager played well.

Whilst players who didn't like a manager didn't play well.

 

[Kingdawson]

It's not a particularly good point imo. To know that the Chelsea players egos weren't part of the reason AVB failed you would actually have had to be there watching and listening to them.


The situations would not be the same if it was true, unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to prove, which is where the line of inquiry dies off a bit..

That's the thing mate. We don't know either way and we'll probably never know so it's impossible for posters to categorically state it was because of the players egos that it went tits up at Chelski.

You see what i'm getting at?

One side is saying that AVB failed at Chelski...that is a factually true statement because it can be backed up and the performances/results and the fact that he got sacked 6 months in speaks for itself.

The other side is saying it didn't work out at Chelski because of player ego which is simply guess work and nothing else.

 

[Kingdawson]

It's not a particularly good point imo. To know that the Chelsea players egos weren't part of the reason AVB failed you would actually have had to be there watching and listening to them.


The situations would not be the same if it was true, unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to prove, which is where the line of inquiry dies off a bit..

That's the thing mate. We don't know either way and we'll probably never know so it's impossible for posters to categorically state it was because of the players egos that it went tits up at Chelski.

You see what i'm getting at?

One side is saying that AVB failed at Chelski...that is a factually true statement because it can be backed up and the performances/results and the fact that he got sacked 6 months in speaks for itself.

The other side is saying it didn't work out at Chelski because of player ego which is simply guess work and nothing else.

 

[Spursalot]

That's the thing mate. We don't know either way and we'll probably never know so it's impossible for posters to categorically state it was because of the players egos that it went tits up at Chelski.

You see what i'm getting at?

One side is saying that AVB failed at Chelski...that is a factually true statement because it can be backed up and the performances/results and the fact that he got sacked 6 months in speaks for itself.

The other side is saying it didn't work out at Chelski because of player ego which is simply guess work and nothing else.

Yeah, but the fact that they have an owner who has sacked like 9 managers in as many years makes being sacked mean far far less.


I'm not sure he was really given the time to succeed there, Torres was brick, which shown by this season wasn't entirely an AVB thing, more a Torres thing. He had them fifth, challenging for the top three when he was fired. He had a poor showing in Europe yes, but so has Mancini two years running and look at the quality in his side...

Sure it went tits up, but it's hard for me to make an informed judgement based on the fact he wasn't given the chance to see out the season and possibly recover in the PL..


Gah, it's far easier when someone is sacked at the end of the season..

 

[Spursalot]

Wait.. wait.. i'm getting off topic

 

[africanspurs]

simple issue is that making a sweeping statement that redknapp's achievements didnt warrant as much due to the quality of player at his disposal is another key indicator as to how you feel about a manager

you think people are bothered that united have one of the top 3 squads in the country when united come 1st to 3rd every year? no. they put alex ferguson up there amongst the best

redknapp got good players to play well. being a manager isnt about having text books and being a tactical savant ...its about people and management of personel.

if you're going to use harry getting good players to play well as something that you can just sweep under the rug..then how do you think it'll look if harry had good players and they played badly? apply that to avb and your answer should therefore be consistent....IF you dont have an issue with Harry

chances are, that AVB didnt handle the egos at chelsea properly........but that is part of being a manager...a man manager....which he failed in quite simply.

doing a great job with us though

 

[Spursalot]

simple issue is that making a sweeping statement that redknapp's achievements didnt warrant as much due to the quality of player at his disposal is another key indicator as to how you feel about a manager

you think people are bothered that united have one of the top 3 squads in the country when united come 1st to 3rd every year? no. they put alex ferguson up there amongst the best

redknapp got good players to play well. being a manager isnt about having text books and being a tactical savant ...its about people and management of personel.

if you're going to use harry getting good players to play well as something that you can just sweep under the rug..then how do you think it'll look if harry had good players and they played badly? apply that to avb and your answer should therefore be consistent....IF you dont have an issue with Harry

chances are, that AVB didnt handle the egos at chelsea properly........but that is part of being a manager...a man manager....which he failed in quite simply.

doing a great job with us though

Being a good manager is about getting results however suits you best. If text books and tactics suit AVB, then that is the way he should go. He shouldn't try to be something he's not.


Alex Ferguson is one of the best managers because he put the team together that finishes between 1st and 3rd every season.

 

[africanspurs]

Being a good manager is about getting results however suits you best. If text books and tactics suit AVB, then that is the way he should go. He shouldn't try to be something he's not.

actually i disagree with that. but i'm probably coming from a different back ground from you...and have a different view of how things should be


i feel that a bad manager can get good results and vice versa, but there is something else that determines who a good manager is no matter where they go. how the people under you respond to you being there and how you manage the club that you are in as a whole irrespective of what results you get

i thought moyes was a good manager even when he was fighting relegation with everton.

 

[Spursalot]

actually i disagree with that. but i'm probably coming from a different back ground from you...and have a different view of how things should be


i feel that a bad manager can get good results and vice versa, but there is something else that determines who a good manager is no matter where they go. how the people under you respond to you being there and how you manage the club that you are in as a whole irrespective of what results you get

i thought moyes was a good manager even when he was fighting relegation with everton.

Ah yes, the good old 'moral' victory..


Harry was a man motivator. At the end of the day what is he judged on?

Results. Positions in the League. A Lack of Trophies.


Bad managers can get good results, however it will not last consistently.



What i meant was you manage to your strengths, if you disagree with that then fair enough.

 

[africanspurs]

Ah yes, the good old 'moral' victory..

hahahahaaa......LOL, i see your point dude

but whats wrong with that?

if you had been in charge of united you would have sacked fergie when he nearly got them relegated with bad results

alex ferguson is considered the best because he put together those teams? but i'll tell you this, those players play for him in a way that i doubt they would play for most managers ...and he's fair. he will drop 30 million pound signings for 8 million pound ones if they proved themselves.

people work for ferguson.....and he puts out some odd teams at times...but the commitment and belief in the man is just out of this world. Ferguson is a good man manager and a strong character first and fore most before anything else

 

[africanspurs]

Being a good manager is about getting results however suits you best. If text books and tactics suit AVB, then that is the way he should go. He shouldn't try to be something he's not.


Alex Ferguson is one of the best managers because he put the team together that finishes between 1st and 3rd every season.

hmmm, lets see if you add a variable to this bolded statement

by the beginning of this season...at the first kick of the ball...who would you have said was the better manager between fergie and mancini?

and at the end of last season , for last season alone in isolation, who would you have said was the better manager between fergie and mancini?

 

[Spursalot]

hahahahaaa......LOL, i see your point dude

but whats wrong with that?

if you had been in charge of united you would have sacked fergie when he nearly got them relegated with bad results

alex ferguson is considered the best because he put together those teams? but i'll tell you this, those players play for him in a way that i doubt they would play for most managers ...and he's fair. he will drop 30 million pound signings for 8 million pound ones if they proved themselves.

people work for ferguson.....and he puts out some odd teams at times...but the commitment and belief in the man is just out of this world. Ferguson is a good man manager and a strong character first and fore most before anything else

And as an antithesis Mourinho is a master tactician, who hasn't really built many of his own teams, but jumps from place to place making teams into winners.


There is more then one way to skin a cat.

 

[Spursalot]

hmmm, lets see if you add a variable to this bolded statement

by the beginning of this season...at the first kick of the ball...who would you have said was the better manager between fergie and mancini?

and at the end of last season , for last season alone in isolation, who would you have said was the better manager between fergie and mancini?

SAF


And SAF.


Mostly because Mancini has failed completely and utterly when faced with Europe. The fact the title was settled on goal difference makes it pretty even, but Mancini had far more funds than SAF.


I am interested in why i should have changed my mind between then end of last season and the start of this one though, what are you getting at?