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OT: What next for Harry?

Spursalot said:
Ah yes, the good old 'moral' victory..


Harry was a man motivator. At the end of the day what is he judged on?

Results. Positions in the League. A Lack of Trophies.


Bad managers can get good results, however it will not last consistently.



What i meant was you manage to your strengths, if you disagree with that then fair enough.
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oh most definately....i dont disagree with that line in isolation at all. but if your players dont respond to your strengths then you have a problem. and even though you might need the right ingredients to mesh with your skills, its up to you to get those ingredients together...make it work where you are.

but i agree with the line. there is no one way of making things work. but i think it all boils down to how you handle you personel and the people you command. its not about your results that make you a good manager..THAT comment in isolation i completely disagree with

i feel martinez is a better manager than alot of managers above him in the league right now
 
Spursalot said:
SAF


And SAF.


Mostly because Mancini has failed completely and utterly when faced with Europe. The fact the title was settled on goal difference makes it pretty even, but Mancini had far more funds than SAF.


I am interested in why i should have changed my mind between then end of last season and the start of this one though, what are you getting at?
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nothing. i would have said fergie both times too.

but mancini got better results in the end..he won the league. and despite that and him winning it with inter...i dont rate mancini that highly at all

the extra variable i was looking for that would open up another consideration when using the old "results" dictates whether you're a good manager or not is resources and funds...and as expected you brought it up. so already results cant possibly be how good managers are defined

who is better between arsene and mancini?
i'm hoping you say arsene
 
Spursalot said:
And as an antithesis Mourinho is a master tactician, who hasn't really built many of his own teams, but jumps from place to place making teams into winners.


There is more then one way to skin a cat.
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but he's a great man manager also. cant you see that in him?

first and foremost he has to get those people to give him TOP dollar , work hard and then its about tactics and execution.

the tactics thing doesnt come first....not IMO
 
Spursalot said:
Ah yes, the good old 'moral' victory..


Harry was a man motivator. At the end of the day what is he judged on?

Results. Positions in the League. A Lack of Trophies.


Bad managers can get good results, however it will not last consistently.



What i meant was you manage to your strengths, if you disagree with that then fair enough.
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To be fair, David Moyes hasn't won anything in his career, doesn't make him any less of a great manager. The last 15 years have been dominated by 5/6 clubs.
 
africanspurs said:
nothing. i would have said fergie both times too.

but mancini got better results in the end..he won the league. and despite that and him winning it with inter...i dont rate mancini that highly at all

the extra variable i was looking for that would open up another consideration when using the old "results" dictates whether you're a good manager or not is resources and funds...and as expected you brought it up. so already results cant possibly be how good managers are defined

who is better between arsene and mancini?
i'm hoping you say arsene
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Mancini got better results in the league yes, but i wasn't just focusing on the league.


Well no, managers should be defined by results compared to resources. However that kind of statistical analysis would probably not impress some on here. Plus in a 'human' environment it's often difficult to statistically measure things.


Arsene is an odd one. He created one very good team at Arsenal and then it has gone downhill ever since. Not at a quick pace, but slowly year by year the quality they have has deteriorated. His strength was the number of quality French players he knew of, and time as a manager meant he had less time to scout players and find such players. His ideals are noteworthy, however he hasn't changed them as time has progressed meaning he's starting to fall behind a little. You can't continuously produce quality youngsters to the kind of class you need to win the league. You need to splash out occasionally. The statements made by the board say the money has been there, just that he has not wanted to spend it.


Mancini is difficult, i feel he's failed if he doesn't win everything really. Granted when you get two sugar daddies like Chelsea and City there should be a fight for it, however Chelsea seem to shoot themselves in the foot every so often. Which is helpful for us at least. With the number of 25m+ strikers they have they should score every single game, I am not entirely sure if it is the players or the manager who have taken their eye off the ball this season.


I'd rate Arsene higher yes, due to his consistency, however his failure to win trophies is a huge downfall of his policies. The fact that he publicly states that 4th is like a trophy is also laughable. That's not something a professional manager should be saying.
 
africanspurs said:
but he's a great man manager also. cant you see that in him?

first and foremost he has to get those people to give him TOP dollar , work hard and then its about tactics and execution.

the tactics thing doesnt come first....not IMO
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Imo they give him top dollar because he's won things. When you're called 'The Special One', people are going to take notice of you whether they get on with you or not.


Like Ronaldo. The guy comes across as a taco to me at times. However if he was going to coach me at football i'd still sit up and listen.



Jurgen the German said:
To be fair, David Moyes hasn't won anything in his career, doesn't make him any less of a great manager. The last 15 years have been dominated by 5/6 clubs.
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I'd give you good manager, I wouldn't give you great manager. He has been there many many years and hasn't quite managed to make it click.


africanspurs said:
wait..did you say it was "pretty even" between fergie and mancini? last season?

Heeeeelllll no...
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I said it was pretty even in the league :p



And just to add, good talk african.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
He's had little or no money to spend. Getting Everton into the top 4 is arguably better than what Redknapp did in 09/10.
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Little or no money to spend makes sense.. If he'd only been there for 2-3 seasons.


Moyes has been there for ten.

He has at times had money to spend, he has had time to implement whatever system he wants and time to alter it to suit.
 
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Kingdawson said:
Well i have, i mean that's the truth and it doesn't take a genius to see it either. What the difference between me and you is that i can differentiate between the man personally and his managerial ability. Since you apparently found out various bits of itk about Arry (btw do you remember i was the one that constantly defended you whilst you was ridiculed by many? if you don't remember then i can quite happily refresh your memory by pm'ing you a with a few pm exchanges we had at the time). Well anyway since that time you've just become totally irrational when speaking about Redknapp and it's simply bizarre.

There's no twisting context involved on my part regarding your thoughts on Redkanpp but your blind dislike/hatred will not let you see it imo.
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As ever, it's always about the failings of others yet you miraculously come out perfect and untouchable. It's really incredible.
 
ArcspacE said:
Why - I never considered then a threat to our club
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I understand you not liking Redknapp, he's not everyone's cup of tea, but how was he a "threat"? Did he threaten to posion our lasagne again? Please explain, I'm genuinely interested.

I don't get why fans will forgive anything players do, but the same courtesy isn't extended to managers.
 
I can drop you a PM some time - don't want to go into detail over here

Some of the things I've explained previously already - no need to repeat
 
i've noticed some people have an uncanny ability to wait until time has elapsed and then get others to do the donkey work of proving something.

something gets said or insinuated early on..then after time has passed they say "where specifically has x, y or z been said...exactly to that letter"

there is a conspiracy here. i smell a rat
 
africanspurs said:
i've noticed some people have an uncanny ability to wait until time has elapsed and then get others to do the donkey work of proving something.

something gets said or insinuated early on..then after time has passed they say "where specifically has x, y or z been said...exactly to that letter"

there is a conspiracy here. i smell a rat
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Tis the way it works on here sadly.

Poster says something, you prove poster wrong, poster ignores thread, another poster argues original point, original poster that it was initially directed at mysteriously returns.
 
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