*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Saudi Sportswashing ***

[alekaras]

Whilst I'm not trying to down play that spending an extra £70m is not small change. I think we could have spent it if meant going the extra mile for the right player.
It would mean we probably wouldn't spend anything in Jan window.
But the difference it would make in being more competitive and accelerating the development may have been significant.
At the moment I see us battling ManU and Villa for 4-6 place. And I don't see much difference between any of the 3 teams. With Chelsea and Brighton just below, but easily able to step up and competing with any of us.

That's where a game changing players makes the difference and unfortunately we don't have one of them right now in our squad.

We're not going to spend £70m twice in a single window. We spent it on a striker, because that was the glaring need. But given we're in a rebuild with a bunch of promising youngsters joining, we don't know yet who the right player is. We're still a year or two away from saying "this type of player is the missing piece," because we just don't know how the players we have brought in will step up. Give it a year and we'll have a better idea where we really need to splash the cash. Until then, let's allow the players we brought in to develop.

 

[alekaras]

Mahrez and Silva are what I consider dribbly wingers. Players who can beat a man at pace or slowly with supreme technique and control of the ball. Sterling in his prime was also a dribbler but more so at pace but again he was someone who could go either side.

I would love to be wrong because I want Ange to succeed but if this is his end game I just can't see it working. It's too one dimensional and it's counter intuitive. By playing such a heavy possession style we are actively negating the space for our non dribbly wide players.

But I'm not so sure I agree that he doesn't want what I'm suggesting because he did sign Odobert and he has started him for both games and even dropped Johnson. Which suggests to me he's not so convinced that the hopeful low cross is actual his primary tactic. Why sign the dribbly wingers if all he wants are crosses into the box? It would make more sense to sign someone who actually has crossing statistics are their primary attribute.

Because it's hard to get effective crosses into the box against a low block. You need a dribbler to pull the defenders out of position to get effective crosses.

 

[Sandman]

I doubt it
If it was 2 who do and 2 who didn’t, I’d guess he may…

The other three played scared as Ange would put it.

If they all step up he is offside. I'm not blaming Dragusin but he plays him on.

I'm sure they can work on that.

 

[Muttley]

We're not going to spend £70m twice in a single window. We spent it on a striker, because that was the glaring need. But given we're in a rebuild with a bunch of promising youngsters joining, we don't know yet who the right player is. We're still a year or two away from saying "this type of player is the missing piece," because we just don't know how the players we have brought in will step up. Give it a year and we'll have a better idea where we really need to splash the cash. Until then, let's allow the players we brought in to develop.

It will be interesting to see what happens with net spending in the future. I cannot remember a time when we finally got our squad completely culled and optimised. I guess in some ways, you never do. That being said, I'd like to think that once we remove the last few like Davies, Reggie, Forster etc then it will be one in, one out with our squad. That one in could also come from the academy or the transfer market.

Only then could we perhaps see 2 major signings in one summer.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I love Ange, am very grateful for what he has done for us, and hope he is given every chance and tool possible to succeed.

Doesn't seem like it.

I just hope impatient fans who can only see as far as the last result (not even performance), don't make his job impossible. Ange and the team have to have some space to develop. Young players especially (but all) need to make mistakes to be able to learn and develop. A loss away at Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we did enough to win, and fans are already questioning Ange! Which is terrible really. It shows the spoilt, and slightly weird sense of entitlement much our fan base have. It affects the stadium. Its win or grumble. When it should be 'together through thick and thin'.

 

[Bishop]

Because it's hard to get effective crosses into the box against a low block. You need a dribbler to pull the defenders out of position to get effective crosses.

I agree 100% but many on here seem to think otherwise. I don't know how they think we will ever have the space to play the cross well or the gain the space for the recieving player to get to the cross if we keep compressing the space with our heavy possession style and don't have players who can take on a confuse their defenders.

It's like we giving with one hand then taking away with the other. But as is said I don't actually believe that's the way Ange wants to play because it wouldn't make any sense and then he did sign (dobert which goes against the idea that he just wants to hit low crosses into the box. I think if he could have gotten goal scoring wingers he would have signed them.

 

[DubSpur]

I agree 100% but many on here seem to think otherwise. I don't know how they think we will ever have the space to play the cross well or the gain the space for the recieving player to get to the cross if we keep compressing the space with our heavy possession style and don't have players who can take on a confuse their defenders.

It's like we giving with one hand then taking away with the other. But as is said I don't actually believe that's the way Ange wants to play because it wouldn't make any sense and then he did sign (dobert which goes against the idea that he just wants to hit low crosses into the box. I think if he could have gotten goal scoring wingers he would have signed them.

We got plenty of those crosses into the box against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Johnson making a few of them. Only issue was not having an out and out striker to get on the end of them. Odobert also has to improve in getting into positions to take advantage.

 

[DubSpur]

Whilst I'm not trying to down play that spending an extra £70m is not small change. I think we could have spent it if meant going the extra mile for the right player.
It would mean we probably wouldn't spend anything in Jan window.
But the difference it would make in being more competitive and accelerating the development may have been significant.
At the moment I see us battling ManU and Villa for 4-6 place. And I don't see much difference between any of the 3 teams. With Chelsea and Brighton just below, but easily able to step up and competing with any of us.

That's where a game changing players makes the difference and unfortunately we don't have one of them right now in our squad.

We were never getting Eze even if we had the 70m. Palace had already sold players and made a profit on transfers so didn't need to sell.

 

[alekaras]

It will be interesting to see what happens with net spending in the future. I cannot remember a time when we finally got our squad completely culled and optimised. I guess in some ways, you never do. That being said, I'd like to think that once we remove the last few like Davies, Reggie, Forster etc then it will be one in, one out with our squad. That one in could also come from the academy or the transfer market.

Only then could we perhaps see 2 major signings in one summer.

That's a good point. But it also assumes that we will continue with the same playing philosophy, regardless of who the manager is. A lot of the "deadwood" got created because we had different managers with different styles and different player needs. If you follow a consistent footballing blueprint, the parts you have should, for the most part, fit what the next manager wants to do and minimize the amount of overhaul you need to make. I'm hoping we have learned that lesson. It doesn't only make sense from a football standpoint; it also makes sense from a financial one.

 

[Raziel]

Doesn't seem like it.

I just hope impatient fans who can only see as far as the last result (not even performance), don't make his job impossible. Ange and the team have to have some space to develop. Young players especially (but all) need to make mistakes to be able to learn and develop. A loss away at Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we did enough to win, and fans are already questioning Ange! Which is terrible really. It shows the spoilt, and slightly weird sense of entitlement much our fan base have. It affects the stadium. Its win or grumble. When it should be 'together through thick and thin'.

Whole other conversation .. football used to be a thing where you followed a team because you had some sort of association (area/family/player that sucked you in) and there was even some sort of weird pride/delight in following non-successful teams (not a bandwagon fan).

Now, it seems like just another extremely superficial flex driven by lazy narratives. My team "has to" win or else .. or else fudging what? fudge, most of us (here at least) where here in the fudging 90's, lived through years of any points away was a bonus, and yes, we must always strive to be better, but the (almost) delight in misery, wanting things not to work so we can see who is smarter doesn't interest me.

 

[Muttley]

That's a good point. But it also assumes that we will continue with the same playing philosophy, regardless of who the manager is. A lot of the "deadwood" got created because we had different managers with different styles and different player needs. If you follow a consistent footballing blueprint, the parts you have should, for the most part, fit what the next manager wants to do and minimize the amount of overhaul you need to make. I'm hoping we have learned that lesson. It doesn't only make sense from a football standpoint; it also makes sense from a financial one.

Yeah, I can see your point. I thought the signings under Jose's were a bad fit for our club. Haven't they all gone now, apart from Reggie who is in the departure lounge?

However, the front foot, progressive signings that Fabio made under Conte seem to have transitioned pretty well into Ange's new system - Udogie, Porro, Romero, Bents, Biss, Sarr, Kulu etc. Even Conte's "club signing" Spence is involved with our new manager. I guess there's a couple that haven't.

I actually think the quality of our squad and the current purse springs is a game changer for any manager looking to get Ange's job. I bet there is a big part of Poch that would love this current crop.

 

[Muttley]

Whole other conversation .. football used to be a thing where you followed a team because you had some sort of association (area/family/player that sucked you in) and there was even some sort of weird pride/delight in following non-successful teams (not a bandwagon fan).

Now, it seems like just another extremely superficial flex driven by lazy narratives. My team "has to" win or else .. or else fudging what? fudge, most of us (here at least) where here in the fudging 90's, lived through years of any points away was a bonus, and yes, we must always strive to be better, but the (almost) delight in misery, wanting things not to work so we can see who is smarter doesn't interest me.

I guess only at the top end of the pyramid. I have mates at clubs like Millwall that wouldn't give up the roller coaster of the amazing highs of play off finals / automatic promotion versus the lows of relegation. They reckon it's dull being a Spurs supporter in comparison.

You have to admit, it has been a tough slog being a Spurs supporter in recent decades. Will we have the last laugh though in the next period? We are set fair in my opinion.

 

[Raziel]

It will be interesting to see what happens with net spending in the future. I cannot remember a time when we finally got our squad completely culled and optimised. I guess in some ways, you never do. That being said, I'd like to think that once we remove the last few like Davies, Reggie, Forster etc then it will be one in, one out with our squad. That one in could also come from the academy or the transfer market.

Only then could we perhaps see 2 major signings in one summer.

I think the strategy (pure guess) seems relatively obvious

- Focus on youth (top tier European talent), some having immediate path into team, some via loans in interim
- Focus on last 3 windows has been primarily 1/Establish new team (clean out deadwood), 2/Build a deeper squad
- Solanke signing indicates a continuation of the we are willing to spend on a single player (Solanke, Richi, unfortunately Ndombele before that)

Going forward I think the youth focus plus key signing remains (maybe the value of that signing goes up, but see point below)

To push on, part of the answer is financial as well
- Stadium, non football events (push to 30 non football events a year is significant) will gives us more revenue
- Reality, with City/Chelsea/Saudi Sportswashing Machine/etc. probably still not enough to truly push, hence the public messaging that the club is looking at external investors to increase what we have to work with.

I get the big frustration is we are "almost" there, another year of Ange building his own squad plus 300-600M or so of external investment could push Spurs over the top, maybe? time will tell, to my other post, we can chose to try and enjoy some of it, or just be miserable in the interim

 

[Baleforce]

I'm pretty happy with the off-field strategy, but I have concerns about the on-field one, and that there seems to be only one concerns me too.

 

[thfcsteff]

He was a great appointment to succeed Klopp as there are lots of similarities to the way he gets his teams playing. I think one of the reasons why he hasn't made many signings there so far is that the Liverpool team he inherited were basically the perfect players for his Feyenoord tactics. It wouldn't have been nearly as easy at Spurs where the squad was a hotch-potch put together for 4 managers all with different philosophies.

That is one of the reasons why we need to make sure we don't lurch to a manager with a completely different style of football whenever it is that Ange does leave the club.

This...+the Levy factor I think figured into it...

Doesn't seem like it.

I just hope impatient fans who can only see as far as the last result (not even performance), don't make his job impossible. Ange and the team have to have some space to develop. Young players especially (but all) need to make mistakes to be able to learn and develop. A loss away at Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we did enough to win, and fans are already questioning Ange! Which is terrible really. It shows the spoilt, and slightly weird sense of entitlement much our fan base have. It affects the stadium. Its win or grumble. When it should be 'together through thick and thin'.

I absolutely agree!
My hope is we give Ange REAL time. We chose a fudging path, we're playing some great stuff. I sincerely hope at some point ENIC decide to actually invest in one or possibly even two top top level 'ready to go' players that Ange wants and who will have immediate impact, but that being said, he needs the time regardless. I am at peace with the data-driven direction providing Ange gets time and is reasonably satisfied with the support he is getting. As I've said about every manager at the club (whether I've liked them or not) they must be backed first and foremost.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This...+the Levy factor I think figured into it...


I absolutely agree!
My hope is we give Ange REAL time. We chose a fudging path, we're playing some great stuff. I sincerely hope at some point ENIC decide to actually invest in one or possibly even two top top level 'ready to go' players that Ange wants and who will have immediate impact, but that being said, he needs the time regardless. I am at peace with the data-driven direction providing Ange gets time and is reasonably satisfied with the support he is getting. As I've said about every manager at the club (whether I've liked them or not) they must be backed first and foremost.

As I’ve said before, this summer was IMO about getting the squad depth right
Next summer is when you add the stardust
And don’t forget thsi is the first time in some time that we have had a a manager get back to back summer windows

 

[thfcsteff]

As I’ve said before, this summer was IMO about getting the squad depth right
Next summer is when you add the stardust
And don’t forget thsi is the first time in some time that we have had a a manager get back to back summer windows

Milo says the same as you.
I remain steadfast that we should've got Eze in early this summer when the opportunity was there.
Againm, I accept both where we're at and why we didn't...

 

[alekaras]

Milo says the same as you.
I remain steadfast that we should've got Eze in early this summer when the opportunity was there.
Againm, I accept both where we're at and why we didn't...

There really was no opportunity for Eze, Steff. We were never going to pay 65m up front (nor would any team) and Palace didn't need to sell by the time his release clause expired, or if they did, would be asking for truly silly money. Eze was a nonstarter from the get-go.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Milo says the same as you.
I remain steadfast that we should've got Eze in early this summer when the opportunity was there.
Againm, I accept both where we're at and why we didn't...

Eze is great
If I’m honest, him or Gibbs white would be players I’d love to see instead of Maddison. I rate Maddison but I think his game suits counter attacking more whereas the other two excel with and without the ball and have the stardust. Always like Gibbs White since I saw him come through with England youth.

Issue with buying Eze is he has never done a whole season fit in the prem. he did at QPR which is again, when we should gave made the leap for the small fee. Him and Olise were such obvious signings but alas

I could see us going for one of these next summer along with maybe another big money signing

Thai summer it was key we got that CF which we have been sorely missing. I do think next summer we will trade out Richy and potentially do something creative to replace him and promote Lankshear. Richys injuries can’t carry on like they are. But his sale could fund part of an Eze

 

[Muttley]

Eze is great
If I’m honest, him or Gibbs white would be players I’d love to see instead of Maddison. I rate Maddison but I think his game suits counter attacking more whereas the other two excel with and without the ball and have the stardust. Always like Gibbs White since I saw him come through with England youth.

Issue with buying Eze is he has never done a whole season fit in the prem. he did at QPR which is again, when we should gave made the leap for the small fee. Him and Olise were such obvious signings but alas

I could see us going for one of these next summer along with maybe another big money signing

Thai summer it was key we got that CF which we have been sorely missing. I do think next summer we will trade out Richy and potentially do something creative to replace him and promote Lankshear. Richys injuries can’t carry on like they are. But his sale could fund part of an Eze

The confusion I have is, apart from competition for Madds, how else do these 2 players map into the Ange system? He plays with a left and right forward whereas these guys are probably more akin to Poch's 4-2-3-1 system where the full-backs play on their outside. Our full-backs are in the spaces that Eze and MGW love to operate in.

Like you, I'm a fan of Eze and MGW and would have loved them at Spurs already. If I had one or both then I'd love to see them play with Madds somehow.