OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v South Coast's Biggest Club

[Pirate55]

Yes that was me - but if your chairman won't sell what do you do?

Leicester have a recruitment team in place that work independently of the manager, we do not, we have a few contacts that throw up names who get offered to the manager when we realize his actual targets don't align with our break even policy.

Hands tied behind his back and supporters expect him to deliver each season without so much as a misstep

You are assuming things to try and prove your point. I was under the distinct understanding that Poch was part of a four man transfer committee. To try and infer that Levy foisted useless players on him is just completely nonsensical. If any Chairman tried to bring in a player a manager didn't want, he just wouldn't play him. So what would be the sense in that?

I rather think Levy lost confidence in Poch's mis-buys and no longer trusted him with the transfer kitty.

 

[Pirate55]

He done that with Alderweireld, only we didn't sell him when we had the opportunity.

I'd love to see an alternate reality where Poch sends a couple of key players off to the reserves for a season, sacrificing points in the table and see how supporters would react

As I said, it requires strong management.

 

[billyiddo]

You are assuming things to try and prove your point. I was under the distinct understanding that Poch was part of a four man transfer committee. To try and infer that Levy foisted useless players on him is just completely nonsensical. If any Chairman tried to bring in a player a manager didn't want, he just wouldn't play him. So what would be the sense in that?

I rather think Levy lost confidence in Poch's mis-buys and no longer trusted him with the transfer kitty.

Sorry but what exactly is nonsensical about a manager who is a member of a transfer committee being offered players by the other members? And if money was essentially nil, what is nonsensical about the calibre of player being offered up by the committee being questionable?

If 'Levy lost confidence in his mis-buys' then why back him summer gone to the tune of 70m net?

What was that about assuming things to make a point?

 

[StephenH]

Then you've misunderstood what was being discussed mate

no, I just don’t think we need to go back to when we didn’t buy for what ever reason!
This last summer we bought and have made a mess of all squad purchases !
Sessegnon and Clarke are for the future and the other two look suspect!
We need players now and they are not ready! And 2020!
It’s the scouting and procurement that is cattle imho!

 

[billyiddo]

no, I just don’t think we need to go back to when we didn’t buy for what ever reason!
This last summer we bought and have made a mess of all squad purchases !
Sessegnon and Clarke are for the future and the other two look suspect!
We need players now and they are not ready! And 2020!
It’s the scouting and procurement that is cattle imho!

We haven't made a mess of the purchases this summer we've just done too little too late to arrest the squad decline which started 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[Baleforce]

no, I just don’t think we need to go back to when we didn’t buy for what ever reason!
This last summer we bought and have made a mess of all squad purchases !
Sessegnon and Clarke are for the future and the other two look suspect!
We need players now and they are not ready! And 2020!
It’s the scouting and procurement that is cattle imho!

Also, why are the likes of Moura and Winks still not ready, they’ve been in the side for years now, what have the coaching team been doing with them?

 

[Pirate55]

Sorry but what exactly is nonsensical about a member of a transfer committee being offered players by the other members? And, if money was essentially nil, what is nonsensical about the calibre of player being offered up the transfer committee being questionable?

You are inferring that the manager has no independent view on the players offered. Do you really believe Levy scouts and sources players? The fourth member of the committee is the youth coach ( who I suspect will only have minimal input except to advise what players are coming through from the youth team). So that effectively leaves Poch and Hitchen ( the chief scout) to scout and source players, with Levy having only a financial input. Poch' s role was therefore at all times pivotal.

 

[Pirate55]

Sorry but what exactly is nonsensical about a manager who is a member of a transfer committee being offered players by the other members? And if money was essentially nil, what is nonsensical about the calibre of player being offered up by the committee being questionable?

If 'Levy lost confidence in his mis-buys' then why back him summer gone to the tune of 70m net?

What was that about assuming things to make a point?

That was the straw that broke the camels back imo. As soon as it became obvious that these high cost recruits were not going to hit the ground running, Levy lost faith in Poch.

 

[StephenH]

We haven't made a mess of the purchases this summer we've just done too little too late to arrest the squad decline which started 3 or 4 years ago.

irrelevant, you Don’t pick poorly if you don’t pick/buy.
I’m only interested when we don’t do it correctly not when we don’t even bother!

 

[billyiddo]

You are inferring that the manager has no independent view on the players offered. Do you really believe Levy scouts and sources players? The fourth member of the committee is the youth coach ( who I suspect will only have minimal input except to advise what players are coming through from the youth team). So that effectively leaves Poch and Hitchen ( the chief scout) to scout and source players, with Levy having only a financial input. Poch' s role was therefore at all times pivotal.

Poch would have had the final say and run the rule over any signing, i never once infered otherwise. Trouble is when you have literally no money to spend the pool of players you can target and are offered becomes less and less - this shouldn't really need explaining.

So as a manager do you continue to sign brick like Nkoudou and Njie to get players in the door or do you say no i don't want the targets available and have a summer with no signings at all?

 

[billyiddo]

irrelevant, you Don’t pick poorly if you don’t pick/buy.
I’m only interested when we don’t do it correctly not when we don’t even bother!

I don't understand what you are saying.

You responded to my post about Poch working in the market for several years on a break even basis and since then gone off on a complete tangent unrelated to the initial post!

 

[thfcsteff]

Here its my truth today...I just don't like Mourinho like I did Poch, and find myself therefore unable to cut him the slack he probably deserves given the situation he has walked into.

I just found myself watching today and feeling no connection with him. That isn't on him more than it is on me I suppose, and it is also not a criticism, I'm just sharing an honest feeling. I watched his post-match presser and enjoyed it as a spectacle but not as a supporter. I don't want comments about opposition coaches being "idiots" and his yellow card was madness. And as much as I agree with his frustrations over NDombele, I don't want my manager throwing him under the bus in public. Poch refused to do it to the bitter end, yet it has taken Mourinho what, 8 weeks to start tossing under the wheels? Again, I admit this is as much to do with my Poch appreciation as it is anything Jose is doing/has done.

But it is how I feel. One thing he does not get a pass from me for is continually picking that fudging cretin Aurier. There is no excuse. None. Play Foyth. Play KWP even. Play Dier FFS and simply have him stay at home more. But stop playing that tosspot.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think that was key. He really wanted the players who were no longer buying into his methods out of the door 18 months ago and they are all still here now.

And because he is the man he is, he was quite possibly too compliant about the whole situation. Can you imagine the current boss being so calm over a two-year stretch? Not that I'd blame him for kicking up a fuss personally...

 

[StephenH]

I don't understand what you are saying

The reasons why we didn’t purchase is different to poor choices we made when we did purchase!
Our procurement is dire when we pull the trigger.
The lack of money for earlier purchases is a whole different enchilada!

 

[billyiddo]

That was the straw that broke the camels back imo. As soon as it became obvious that these high cost recruits were not going to hit the ground running, Levy lost faith in Poch.

Perhaps if Levy wants players to hit the ground running he shouldn't buy them at the end of the window when they are returning from a summer tournament or are injured

‍

 

[milo]

And because he is the man he is, he was quite possibly too compliant about the whole situation. Can you imagine the current boss being so calm over a two-year stretch? Not that I'd blame him for kicking up a fuss personally...

I cannot see there not being fireworks between Mourinho and Levy sometime over the next two windows. I don't buy Mourinho saying that he is happy with the squad, I think that is spin. He has never operated like that in his career and I don't think he'll start now.

 

[thfcsteff]

His stubbornness led to him tieing at least one of those hands behind his own back. Don't you think he had discussions with Levy along the lines :

Levy - the Club has £ x available for new players ( plus any amount raised in sales). You can buy 6 players or one - as long as the total doesn't exceed £ x)

That is the prudent way to run a club.

Poch ( and his recruitment team) failed miserably to find the right players at the right price.

Disssssssagree!!!!! Had Levy sold Alderweireld and Eriksen, had he taken, say 40 mill for Toby instead of 50-60, had he taken, say, 90 or 100 for Eriksen rather than holding out for what was it, 140? We'd have approx 150-180 million in, Poch might well have then been able to sign QUALITY within the remit you offered and there we are. Jesus, we wouldn't even fudging unload Janssen and Nkoudou without bleeding a few extra quid? As for those who talk about "business" and "books" we will now lose a player in Eriksen for free when we could've sold him abroad for somewhere close to his value (a value he has currently lost). So it didn't really work did it?

The main stubbornness Poch showed was in keeping largely quiet. I wish he'd bitched more. Perhaps we would not have ended up with the sad drift of this season.

 

[milo]

That was the straw that broke the camels back imo. As soon as it became obvious that these high cost recruits were not going to hit the ground running, Levy lost faith in Poch.

I think that it is because it's cheaper to replace a manager than the squad. He'll end up doing both.

 

[Baleforce]

I cannot see there not being fireworks between Mourinho and Levy sometime over the next two windows. I don't buy Mourinho saying that he is happy with the squad, I think that is spin. He has never operated like that in his career and I don't think he'll start now.

If we are planning to spend, the last thing we would do is say so.

 

[milo]

If we are planning to spend, the last thing we would do is say so.

I agree but I doubt that many are buying what he is saying either. Mendes will be busy and clubs with his players will know what's going on.