*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Bournemouth ***

[Raziel]

Our "crisis" season may end up better than Liverpool's and Chelsea", but conversely their successful seasons are far more successful than ours and a lot more often. Swings and roundabouts my friend.

I disagree that how and why are short term. They are part of the long term strategy of the club or at least should be. The model will say we spend relatively xxx in xxx circumstance. This should be ingrained as the operating model that influences all decisions. The immediate effect might be short term but with the medium and long term in mind.

Not disagreeing mate, but I think my point is

- United is in a class of their own, their income has protected them from a decade+ of awful management
- A successful Liverpool will also be competitive, as will Arsenal based on their decades of success (head start)
- City, Chelsea & Saudi Sportswashing Machine have the cheat mode on

Then you have Spurs, who via the work done by ENIC/Levy are above the rest, typically £200M-£250M/yr in additional revenue over anyone else in the league (obviously not the ones above), 13+ years in Europe in a row

- And you then have about 4 clubs that are pretty safe
- And from about 10th down, regardless of what anyone says, those clubs start a season thinking about survival first, everything else second.

This is our problem
- Too big to be classified with the rest
- Not big enough to compete at top level

So yes
- A better strategy, better manager choices and a little luck could get us the occasional win we should have had
- But it will take even more money (sugar daddy) to truly compete

And if people don't get the last point, it's going to be a circle fudge of toxicity as expectations just aren't inline with reality.

 

[Mikey10]

I hope Stellini plays Sanchez in the next few games as a two fingered salute to the nobheads. Season is gone as far as I’m concerned anyway.

I think that would be a terrible thing for the player. He is devoid of confidence and would be under huge pressure. Best outcome for him is that he isn’t asked to play again this season and then gets a move.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think that would be a terrible thing for the player. He is devoid of confidence and would be under huge pressure. Best outcome for him is that he isn’t asked to play again this season and then gets a move.

You may be right. I’d like to cheer him to the rafters. Utterly disillusioned with things right now and think our season is a write off so the chance to stick it to the haters really appeals to me.

 

[Jurgen the German]

To me Sanchez was just unfortunate to be the outlet for fans venting their frustration.

It could have easily have been Sess, Moura, Perisic, Dier or various others. He's not good enough, just like those others, but really the booing relates to the sorry state of chaos which they club is in.

Very sad to see the club that so many of us love being in such a dire state

Agree with the logic. He’s a representation of players we’ve held on to for too long similar to Dier and Davies.

 

[Raziel]

To me Sanchez was just unfortunate to be the outlet for fans venting their frustration.

It could have easily have been Sess, Moura, Perisic, Dier or various others. He's not good enough, just like those others, but really the booing relates to the sorry state of chaos which they club is in.

Very sad to see the club that so many of us love being in such a dire state

Not picking on you, but do we/us really love the club?

Because what I hear is the club/owner/manager isn't meeting expectations so fudge them, lets boo players/coaches/owners, lets brick on the club constantly, lets compare to everyone else and point out anyone who has done anything good as proof we suck.

What I hear is we are entitled to boo because a player isn't technically good enough (regardless of how hard he tries), we are entitled to boo because the football isn't entertaining, we are entitled to boo because for the first time in six seasons our rivals will finish above us, we are entitled to boo because a ticket was expensive.

I'm not sure that's love in any definition I'm aware of

And for clarity, I have no issue with the people chanting Levy out .. you do you, but the brick with Sanchez, the jeering misplaced passes or shots, the singing for Poch when the side is trying to chase a game .. not fudging helpful and nothing to do with caring for club. Honestly most "fans" could do worse than look at opposition fans from small clubs even when we smash them .. don't see them booing their players ..

 

[AdamB]

Not picking on you, but do we/us really love the club?

Far far too many points after this to go into, but to answer your opening point just ask yourself questions which go to how emotionally attached you are to Spurs like:

- how much does it impact your weekend if Spurs throw away points?
- how distracted are you if Spurs are playing but for whatever reason you're not there or not even online?
- how much effort do you go to to find a stream/coverage if you cant be there?
- how tinkled off are you with the current shambles?

Its questions like that which answer your question

 

[Mcfee]

Conte never told any truths, he simply said whatever the fudge he felt would deflect blame from his failure.

He is the guy who didn't give minutes to squad players to allow them to be more ready for when they were needed, he's the guy who felt a WB would be a better goal threat than Son, he's the guy who felt being constantly outnumbered in midfield when you need better defenders is a good idea.

Dier & Sanchez are not good enough, but he felt Porro was the priority not a CB .. fudge that guy ..

Conte may be a prick but he did have a point.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Why be worried about that? If Pleat has Levy's ear then he would already know about the changes being made. Levy isn't going to change the new structure after a week just because of what Pleat says.
There has been a lengthy review of the football side and this is the structure that he has decided on. From the outside, it looks like a big improvement and seems to be taking some lessons from how City does things.

Levy has a bit of a history of listening to the last person he talked to when it comes to football.

Paratici was doing some good (long overdue) things. If Paratici goes Levy could revert back to the previous structure and budget for all we know.

 

[Junior19]

To me Sanchez was just unfortunate to be the outlet for fans venting their frustration.

It could have easily have been Sess, Moura, Perisic, Dier or various others. He's not good enough, just like those others, but really the booing relates to the sorry state of chaos which they club is in.

Very sad to see the club that so many of us love being in such a dire state

I don't often agree with Cracknell on Last Word on Spurs, as he is usually more a part of the problem than the solution, but on this matter he actually had a good point! Why the f*ck boo a player who has hardly featured this season? What good is that going to do? And also, when Lloris in the interview tries to defend Sanchez he goes about it in the wrong way, he should stick it to the fans, and tell them to boo him, Kane, Son and the regulars, if they want to boo someone. If you can't boo your favourite, don't boo at a player at all. Let the _TEAM_ know at full time, fine. Let the manager know. Fine. Let Levy know, fine. But what in the name of all that is nice and purple is booing a player going to contribute to?

As for the match, it was a complete mess. I can't for my life understand why we keep doing the same thing over and over, and expect different result! A quick reminder of what mr Einstein thought about just that:
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Ok, we had misfortunes. Ok, we had to shift our gameplan, due to injury early. But for heavens sake, we're at home. Playing a 50% championship level club, albeit fighting for their life, but we should be all over them. If one of our defenders go off, and we have five of them on the pitch, well, f*ck it, let's be a bit gutsy here, shall we? Let's go four at the back, do a 4-2-3-1, a 4-1-4-1 or heck, even a plain old 4-4-2, just to make a fuzz. But we shouldn't be in that situation in the first place, we should go into this game with the intention to dominate it. Not to be afraid of Bournemouth. "It is about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
This was the straw that broke the camels back for me, we must purge the club of all this Conte-mentality, and we must never ever go there again. It is draining away our lifeblood. If Stellini is incapable of doing anything other than a Conte Mk 1.2, then he should be given different duties. Such as cleaning socks, or making tea.

If we had lost to Bournemouth, after creating loads of chances, but failed to score, sure I would be tinkled. I would be disappointed. But I would also still be in love with Spurs. Right now, though, not so much.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Generic comments haha I forgot to add that

The thing with our recruitment is one, in the recruitment but equally there is undoubtedly targets on players back based on price or perceived effectiveness based on loan. Kulu got pelters early on for example, was well talked about on here.

We all want better players but I also believe there is an "over the fence" attitude where we see what others do and judge on that BUT as I've said loads, would fans be as patient as other clubs whilst those players develop? I have reservations based on previous examples of hounding I've seen


Sent from my SM-A127F using Fapatalk

‘Got pelters’? You do exaggerate, I think there were one or two people on here who said he didn’t look great and far more who said it was stupid to make a call so quickly.

It isn’t the fans we have to worry about with players developing, it is the chairman as he’ll sack the manager when he misses/looks like he may miss qualifying for the CL. It is hard for a manager to let a young player develop under those pressures. I think our fans are actually pretty patient when it comes to young players, the likes of Gill and Sarr for example seem to get great support despite not actually doing much on the pitch.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I heard that pod too and the seeming refusal to look for talent in the lower leagues is worrying. Take Ollie Watkins, who Steve Perryman basically offered to Spurs when he was at Exeter. And look at the Brighton model where they find players from other leagues who have gone under the radar. Sadly, our club as a business is top of the league, but as a football entity we are struggling to consistently be top four.

Our scouting and recruitment was an absolute joke for several years mate, it might’ve even been the lowest budgeted department in the PL.

 

[markysimmo]

I don't often agree with Cracknell on Last Word on Spurs, as he is usually more a part of the problem than the solution, but on this matter he actually had a good point! Why the f*ck boo a player who has hardly featured this season? What good is that going to do? And also, when Lloris in the interview tries to defend Sanchez he goes about it in the wrong way, he should stick it to the fans, and tell them to boo him, Kane, Son and the regulars, if they want to boo someone. If you can't boo your favourite, don't boo at a player at all. Let the _TEAM_ know at full time, fine. Let the manager know. Fine. Let Levy know, fine. But what in the name of all that is nice and purple is booing a player going to contribute to?

As for the match, it was a complete mess. I can't for my life understand why we keep doing the same thing over and over, and expect different result! A quick reminder of what mr Einstein thought about just that:
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Ok, we had misfortunes. Ok, we had to shift our gameplan, due to injury early. But for heavens sake, we're at home. Playing a 50% championship level club, albeit fighting for their life, but we should be all over them. If one of our defenders go off, and we have five of them on the pitch, well, f*ck it, let's be a bit gutsy here, shall we? Let's go four at the back, do a 4-2-3-1, a 4-1-4-1 or heck, even a plain old 4-4-2, just to make a fuzz. But we shouldn't be in that situation in the first place, we should go into this game with the intention to dominate it. Not to be afraid of Bournemouth. "It is about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
This was the straw that broke the camels back for me, we must purge the club of all this Conte-mentality, and we must never ever go there again. It is draining away our lifeblood. If Stellini is incapable of doing anything other than a Conte Mk 1.2, then he should be given different duties. Such as cleaning socks, or making tea.

If we had lost to Bournemouth, after creating loads of chances, but failed to score, sure I would be tinkled. I would be disappointed. But I would also still be in love with Spurs. Right now, though, not so much.

Great post and summed up exactly how me and my pals felt during the game yesterday

 

[90291Spur]

Our scouting and recruitment was an absolute joke for several years mate, it might’ve even been the lowest budgeted department in the PL.

Exactly. And when lots of other less well-funded and less glamorous clubs managed to get their recruitment and scouting right.

 

[Yiddo]

The West Ham game was a prime example, they went 2-0 down early on, had a brick season and didn’t look like they had any fight in them. They start putting on a bit of pressure and the crowd got right behind them and it was buzzing every time they went forward, no moans, no boo’s just a fan base getting behind the team regardless of the score. I know its West Ham and the majority of the fan base are scum but they showed what you should be doing when your team is struggling.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The West Ham game was a prime example, they went 2-0 down early on, had a brick season and didn’t look like they had any fight in them. They start putting on a bit of pressure and the crowd got right behind them and it was buzzing every time they went forward, no moans, no boo’s just a fan base getting behind the team regardless of the score. I know its West Ham and the majority of the fan base are scum but they showed what you should be doing when your team is struggling.

Helps they played with some urgency
The way we played when Danjuma came on changed the atmosphere
Same last week
We just want players to try

 

[Finney Is Back]

And good management to realise and bring him in?
I think Steinson will take over paraticis role and follow on from what he has started
It’s weird that the old what’s in football thinks it’s complicated and convoluted yet the more successful clubs now (without the old heads in charge) all have invested heavily in their football structure

Good management would be not neglecting it in the first place…. Eventually realising and fixing it is merely ‘not disgracefully bad management’.

 

[DeanoAustin]

He's part of the problem - no one in that dressing room holds each other accountable, but they're happy to call out the fans who pay their wages.

That filters through - and eventually, fans decide that they will hold the players accountable if the players themselves do not.

Mind, I'm not excusing what happened. But I can see why it did. Every single motivator a group of football players should have to perform well has failed with this group - nothing even remotely bothers them about losing to anyone and everyone.

They don't care about professional pride, don't care about being laughed at by their opposition or schooled by the likes of Bournemouth, don't care about justifying their enormous wages, don't care about being trophyless wonders. And they certainly don't care about what they've put the fans through as a result, nor what that means for the club they represent. They just collect their paycheck and turn in sh*te, week after week, oblivious and happy.

On the other hand, the fans ultimately value the club a lot more than any individual wearing the shirt. Sanchez, Dier, Davies, even Lloris - they come and they go. The club remains.

The disconnect is what drives this, and booing them is the only way to get them to realize that the people who pay their wages actually are hurt by them limply losing like that. Because lord knows, they don't look like they care about that at all otherwise.

So, Sanchez gets the stick, but Lloris is to blame. Kane's to blame, Son's to blame - they all are. They let it get to this - them and the owners and coaches that didn't hold them accountable either.

Conte may have been a c*nt, but he was right about one thing - no one ever holds these players accountable for being disinterested sh*tes,and he had the courage to say it to the press. Fans just picked that message up, is all.

That’s a whole load of projection. None of us know what goes on in the dressing room really. The one glimpse we got, Lloris certainly held Son accountable for not covering a run. That’s right, simply for not covering a run. I’d imagine there is lots of accountability and players calling each other out for other stuff based on that.

It’s nice to believe that these are pampered millionaires who swan in and collect their big pay check and don’t give a fudge. Doesn’t stand up to scrutiny though.

Lloris captained his country to the World Cup. Sonny was put through borderline child abuse to become as good as he is. Kane is routinely called a model pro by anyone who works with him. The lad has basically given up all the temptations to dedicate himself to being the best he can be. You ever hear PEH’s story about being a 17 year old pro at Munich while his dad was dying? If not, check it out.

Every player in there has a similar story. You don’t become a pro Premier League player by not giving a fudge.

 

[DubSpur]

Levy has a bit of a history of listening to the last person he talked to when it comes to football.

Paratici was doing some good (long overdue) things. If Paratici goes Levy could revert back to the previous structure and budget for all we know.

What proof is there of that above you reading into it? I'd say it's more that he pampered to his manager when he shouldn't have. Hopefully, now that there is a proper review he will stick to that.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

What proof is there of that above you reading into it? I'd say it's more that he pampered to his manager when he shouldn't have. Hopefully, now that there is a proper review he will stick to that.

Think that’s been one of Levy’s biggest problems ironically, pampering to his managers. Poch and not wanting a dof above him, Jose and Contes niche demands for players. Overpaying on salaries for average players like Lo Celso and Ndombele.

Essentially doing what fans were baying for, then getting slated for it by those same fans when it doesn’t work.

 

[DubaiSpur]

That’s a whole load of projection. None of us know what goes on in the dressing room really.

Antonio Conte did, despite his own flaws. Here's his view -

"The problem is we have shown we are not a team. We are 11 players.

“I see selfish players. I see players that don’t want to help each other, don’t play with heart.

“It is the same every season, no matter who the manager is. They’re used to it here.

"Don’t play for something important. They don’t want to play under pressure. They don’t want to play under stress.

Until now I try to hide the situation but now, no, because I repeat I don’t want to see what I’ve seen today because this is unacceptable and also unacceptable for the fans.

“They follow us, pay the ticket and to see the team another time to have this type of performance is unacceptable. We have to think a lot about this.

"And the players? The players? Where are the players? And I see only 11 players that play for themselves.”

Jose Mourinho did, despite his own flaws. Here's his view -

"Our biggest problem is one, missing s*** passes! F****** sloppy, f****** slow, pass back when the pass should be in front... It's sloppy!

The second thing is about intensity. It's about your responsibility, or your own motivation.

"I told [you] this before we start playing. You only have the feeling that the game is important at the end, and in the end of the game you are going to be here [saying] 'blah blah blah blah'. It's not after the game, it's during the game. It's during the game. The game is important, f***!"

Both of those seem to me to be a lot more relevant than the one time Lloris called Son out years ago (and that was notable for its absolute rarity).

I’d imagine there is lots of accountability and players calling each other out for other stuff based on that.

It’s nice to believe that these are pampered millionaires who swan in and collect their big pay check and don’t give a fudge. Doesn’t stand up to scrutiny though.

What scrutiny? Conte's scrutiny? Mourinho's scrutiny? Two professional coaches who have coached these losers, worked with them, seen them every day? Under that scrutiny, it was abundantly clear that 'pampered millionaires swanning around' seems very apt to describe this lot.

Lloris captained his country to the World Cup. Sonny was put through borderline child abuse to become as good as he is. Kane is routinely called a model pro by anyone who works with him. The lad has basically given up all the temptations to dedicate himself to being the best he can be. You ever hear PEH’s story about being a 17 year old pro at Munich while his dad was dying? If not, check it out.

Every player in there has a similar story. You don’t become a pro Premier League player by not giving a fudge.

See above for the key point in Conte and Mourinho's views of this team - both of them feel that the players 'play for themselves'. Not for the team, for themselves. You can be a model pro, show up to training, and not give a single damn about holding your team-mates accountable. That I think is rampant here.

Tim Sherwood once accused the players of something similar, and it is applicable to us in 2023 as it was when it was said in 2014:

"Too many of them in there, too nice to each other...I ain't going to forget about this [defeat] by the time we hit the motorway. [But] some might. The club talks about 4th...nah, wake up."

Same captain then and now - Hugo Lloris. Which is why I say he's part of the issue.