*** OMT: Spurs vs Sunderland*** Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, Sunday 4th January, 3pm

[DubSpur]

I'm all for playing more progressively but with balance. I don't see the point of harikiri football because it hurts us as much as we gain.

I think Frank is like me, he doesn't actually rate what he has. So his approach is probably influenced by that. I think you can give them time all you want, what you can't give them is extra ability.

I just think we are chasing our tails. None of this is new, the lack of attacking quality has been evident for years. Initially plastered over by Kane and Son's quality but at this point those players have gone and we are left with prospects and not even particularly high end prospects and we wonder why it doesn't actually work.

I'm happy enough with Frank getting moved on, I just know that the genesis of our problems will still be present and in 6 months time we'll still be debating why we lack finesse in our attacking play.

Nobody is talking about harikari football. Just more of the same sort of football seen in the first half yesterday. Even that wasn't very aggressive. There was a press but it wasn't aggressive (at times disjointed). We played forward and made some good positions, progress.

If there's a lack of quality in attack then how is reducing the amount of attacks going to lead to goals?? If there was a lack of quality in defense I could understand being more defensive, but that's not the real problem here.

 

[Bishop]

Nobody is talking about harikari football. Just more of the same sort of football seen in the first half yesterday. Even that wasn't very aggressive. There was a press but it wasn't aggressive (at times disjointed). We played forward and made some good positions, progress.

If there's a lack of quality in attack then how is reducing the amount of attacks going to lead to goals?? If there was a lack of quality in defense I could understand being more defensive, but that's not the real problem here.

I think we are talking about different things tbh. I think I understand your view better now and tbh we don't disagree in application where I think we differ is in the result of the application. For instance you blame the poor attacking quality on an unfamiliarity with playing that way this season whereas I saw the same problems evident last season and the season before so I don't believe the solution is just play more aggressively as I don't actually think that's the main issue.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I really, really don't see Palace moving on from Johnson so quickly. We basically sold him on the first day of the window. I'd get it if the transfer was dragging into the second half of the window but massively disagree that we couldn't have kept Johnson for the first week or two and still sold him to Palace for the same fee.

Fair enough mate, your viewpoint is as informed as mine because (I'm assuming) neither of us have had first hand experience of these sorts of deals. I can see the logic in what we've done but may be wrong and you may be correct.

Personally, I'm happy we got the deal done despite the short term difficulty. For me, it's a bit like the stadium. The noise and complaining around the opening date was massive from supporters and the media at the time. To me, it didn't really matter - we were always going to get in there and the few month's delay was insignificant given we'll be there for 100 years or more probably.

Likewise with this. I believe the club will fill the void and if we have a few weeks where we are a bit short, I don't really care as long as we come out the other side stronger.

 

[metalgear]

I think it was always likely Kudus was going to get injured. He has played too many minutes and was looking more and more fatigued every game. In many ways yesterday showed how silly it was for us to sell Johnson so early in the window. He would've been great to bring on last night for the last 20 minutes, giving Richi a rest and pushing Muani into the centre. We're now seriously lacking options for the 4 weeks or so that Kudus is said to be out for.

Agree - the lack of rotation around some players is questionable.
TF has to answer to that.
VDV is another that deserves a rest and we have capable CBs to deputize

 

[Mikey10]

We have Muani. Who played centre forward for Juventus last season.

A long time since I have seen a player look less interested in playing for us; and he looks unable to do even the basics. Not sure if that’s due to apathy or lack of skill - whichever, he looks bloody awful when he features.

 

[BrentwoodSpur]

A long time since I have seen a player look less interested in playing for us; and he looks unable to do even the basics. Not sure if that’s due to apathy or lack of skill - whichever, he looks bloody awful when he features.

My son said he reminded him of N’dombele in his demeanour. Definitely looks like he’s not enjoying his time here

 

[Gutter Boy]

A long time since I have seen a player look less interested in playing for us; and he looks unable to do even the basics. Not sure if that’s due to apathy or lack of skill - whichever, he looks bloody awful when he features.

Against Slavia he was moving and dominating defenders in a way only Kane has for us for a very long time. There's a player in there if setup around him improves.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Against Slavia he was moving and dominating defenders in a way only Kane has for us for a very long time. There's a player in there if setup around him improves.

Did you mean vs Copenhagen?
If so, agreed

 

[Gutter Boy]

Did you mean vs Copenhagen?
If so, agreed

Both actually. He was impressive off the bench against Slavia

 

[Legohamster]

Against Slavia he was moving and dominating defenders in a way only Kane has for us for a very long time. There's a player in there if setup around him improves.

Happy to show up in the CL as thinks more people are watching?

 

[Finney Is Back]

We are in a rebuilding phase post Kane and Son.

I agree with your post, but I would say that Bentancur has been getting back to his solid performances again. The last two games he’s done well. Nothing out of this world, just competent at this level and not making mistakes. Outside of the defense and Bentancur you can’t really say that about anyone else!

Frank needs time. He’s got Bentancur back. He’s got Odobert playing well. He’s even got Tel looking half decent. Baby steps. Need a couple of years of rebuilding.

Son, I get but we're now in our third season since Kane left.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Now I feel sick no one is as bad as that clam

He did something at Spurs that I doubt Frank will (i.e. win a trophy).

 

[SpurMeUp]

Son, I get but we're now in our third season since Kane left.

I'd simply ask if you think we've adequately replaced Kane.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We had the ball in enough dangerous positions with numerical advantage and space in which to have scored plenty yesterday - i can see the arguments in certain games previous regarding the cautious tactics being primarily the cause of a lack of chances but yesterday was about the quality on the pitch not making enough of those situations.

But we had an XG of 1.... So we clearly didn't create anywhere near enough chances to win 3-0.

We've actually scored 20% more goals than our XG this season - so we either have players with good technique or we've been lucky.

 

[Eriktheviking]

Now I feel sick no one is as bad as that clam

Won a trophy though....

 

[Finney Is Back]

In the same season it would mean a lot more. It would imply a more solid foundation to our football club.

Mate - we hadn't won a trophy for 17 years. We hadn't won a european trophy for 40 years. Any manager that can go 5th and then win a trophy the following season has done a fantastic job for Spurs.

 

[billyiddo]

But we had an XG of 1.... So we clearly didn't create anywhere near enough chances to win 3-0.

We've actually scored 20% more goals than our XG this season - so we either have players with good technique or we've been lucky.

Xg only measures shots, so if your players are messing up the final ball in good areas due to poor technique (as described in the post you have responded to) then that stat doesn't tell the whole story does it

 

[Eriktheviking]

X

But we had an XG of 1.... So we clearly didn't create anywhere near enough chances to win 3-0.

We've actually scored 20% more goals than our XG this season - so we either have players with good technique or we've been lucky.

XG relates to chances, not positions. Thats the argument, in great positions several times but was unable to turn that into chances due to the poor play by the players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Fair enough mate, your viewpoint is as informed as mine because (I'm assuming) neither of us have had first hand experience of these sorts of deals. I can see the logic in what we've done but may be wrong and you may be correct.

Personally, I'm happy we got the deal done despite the short term difficulty. For me, it's a bit like the stadium. The noise and complaining around the opening date was massive from supporters and the media at the time. To me, it didn't really matter - we were always going to get in there and the few month's delay was insignificant given we'll be there for 100 years or more probably.

Likewise with this. I believe the club will fill the void and if we have a few weeks where we are a bit short, I don't really care as long as we come out the other side stronger.

You have a lot more confidence in the club than I do....

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'd simply ask if you think we've adequately replaced Kane.

Mate, we'll never adequately replace Kane. Partly because he is an absolute superstar and that is pretty much irreplaceable and partly because the club don't really have that level of ambition to really try to do so.