*** OMT: Spurs vs Sunderland*** Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, Sunday 4th January, 3pm

[Finney Is Back]

a pity that kudus got injured

it was at best mid-table football - lots of running but nothing classy

i really feel that odobert, muani, tel should not be starting games

and palhinha on the pitch doesn't mean we are defensively better
neither is romero world class

we deserved that result, but its hard to pin it on frank with the players we have

I think it was always likely Kudus was going to get injured. He has played too many minutes and was looking more and more fatigued every game. In many ways yesterday showed how silly it was for us to sell Johnson so early in the window. He would've been great to bring on last night for the last 20 minutes, giving Richi a rest and pushing Muani into the centre. We're now seriously lacking options for the 4 weeks or so that Kudus is said to be out for.

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is not hyperbole when I say this, but it really feels like we are watching similar quality to the late 90s/early 2000s. We’re a mid table side. Might as well wear the Pony kits from that era.

It might be just that the manager's tactics are somewhat George Graham'esque?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Booing again. Embarrassing and entitled. Sunderland have taken points off better teams than us this season.

Don't the idiots realise they might be a part of the reason we are so good away and yet so poor at home?

A team promoted via the play-offs with 5 players off at AFCON.... Sunderland is a hard place to visit (as we'll find out later this season) but we really do need to be putting teams like that away when we're at home. We had an XG of about 1 yesterday, I suspect most of that 1 was Davies' tap in. It's really not good at all.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't think you could press like we did in the first half for 90 minutes, that's an unfair expectation. Also you are going to be penned back at times, as is evident from the league table it's close between the majority of teams so naturally the opposition are going to come onto you at some point.

Credit to their manager, I think he made some changes tactically but even so we could have scored a couple more to finish the game. We created chances which is positive, we take that and try and build on it....

Our first half press wasn't exactly Klopp gegen pressing or even season 2 Pochettino Spurs pressing. We pressed more than we usually do (a lot more seeing as we've barely pressed at all under Frank) but we didn't need to drop into such a low-block and start hoofing it long as we did.

 

[kb 1984]

It might be just that the manager's tactics are somewhat George Graham'esque?

Now I feel sick no one is as bad as that clam

 

[billyiddo]

And one of our better results at home after putting in an attacking performance for 50% of the match. Had we not dropped deeper and changed to counter attack in the second half then we may even have scored another goal and won the game.

I don't think we could have maintained the high press for the second half - once we lost Kudus we were essentially already fielding our second string attack so if we make further changes in that area then we're scraping the barrell

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate, that's quite an anti Frank rant there! In fact, Sunderland had 1 shot of note and scored. We lacked a clinical touch up front. We really do need to bolster our strikeforce. But really promising signs from Odobert and Tel today. Thought Bents was good too. But we pass so many times when the better option is to work the keeper. But soo many teams are accused of trying to "walk the ball into the net. " It's just one of those things where we have to improve decision making up front. Thought we showed much more intent today just couldn't finish them off.

I don't think TF did much wrong today. Thought we looked good until it came to scoring!

How many shots of note did we have?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I am pretty sure even if we won 3-0, he would have been wrong... we get it.

Imagine us creating enough chances to win a game 3-0?.... No, I can't either.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Pretty simple answer.... no. But we have no one else

We have Muani. Who played centre forward for Juventus last season.

 

[billyiddo]

Imagine us creating enough chances to win a game 3-0?.... No, I can't either.

We had the ball in enough dangerous positions with numerical advantage and space in which to have scored plenty yesterday - i can see the arguments in certain games previous regarding the cautious tactics being primarily the cause of a lack of chances but yesterday was about the quality on the pitch not making enough of those situations.

 

[Rafa87]

We had the ball in enough dangerous positions with numerical advantage and space in which to have scored plenty yesterday - i can see the arguments in certain games previous regarding the cautious tactics being primarily the cause of a lack of chances but yesterday was about the quality on the pitch not making enough of those situations.

Davies actually scores, a pass from Richy to Muani was a great chance on the break, and the one where Porro teed up Muani who completely missed the ball, all relatively straight forward and would have had us 3-0 up prior to Sunderland scoring.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think Levy had it right with the stadium, in order to be on a level footing with teams above us, who had either achieved their status by continually winning stuff and CL money, or teams that won the money washing lottery.
The problem is, we've got the bling stadium, we've got the expensive seat, but it's ahead of the successful team, and there lies the resentment. I'm trying to think how this gets resolved, and all I can come up with is they should massively slash the price of a basic ST. Get the singing fans onside. Get the atmosphere conductive. Sod the corporate, that's just a status symbol anyway, and if the atmosphere is good, they'll be happy.
Not sure what that would cost the club in terms of revenue, but it could be money well spent.
Or carry on down this toxic road.

Jumping from a Europa League team to a Champions League team is a tough thing to do. Redknapp and then Pochettino allowed Spurs to make that jump. After Poch had managed us for 2 or 3 years we were at the level where we could attract real top talent as we were seen as a bona-fide Champions League club. The problem was that the owners didn't want to capitalise on that (and their investment growing from about £100m to about £3b) and inject funds to allow us to raise our wage bill and buy those real top players.

We're now back at the stage where we're not really seen as a bona-fide Champions League club and the best players don't want to sign for us, instead holding out for genuine top clubs to come in for them (see Eze, Hincapie, Semenyo, Rodrygo, Diaz, etc).

We therefore need to find a great director of football who has a brilliant model for finding good players at the level below a Premier League Europa League level club (that could be Lange perhaps), and align them with a really clever (probably young) coach with a dynamic way of playing and try to get ourselves back into being considered a bona-fide CL level club again and at that point not make those same mistakes we did last time.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We are where we are because of past decisions. 100%. But I don’t get the criticism of the Johnson sale, I really don’t.

We decided the lad was surplus to requirements and got the deal done quickly for a good price. Drag our heels until we sign someone and Palace may move on or try to bargain us down. That’s one of the few criticisms I’d have of Levy (how he handled departures).

If we get to the end of the window and have no one, you may have more of a point.

I really, really don't see Palace moving on from Johnson so quickly. We basically sold him on the first day of the window. I'd get it if the transfer was dragging into the second half of the window but massively disagree that we couldn't have kept Johnson for the first week or two and still sold him to Palace for the same fee.

 

[Bishop]

We're doing it with 4 players under 21 that are now getting more experienced and settled. They have improved in that time. We've also 2 new attacking players in Xavi and Kudus.
Two choices, play a proper style of football and let them develop further and learn to play that style or, play the defensive ultra safe and boring brick that Frank has mostly used and hamper their development.

I'm all for playing more progressively but with balance. I don't see the point of harikiri football because it hurts us as much as we gain.

I think Frank is like me, he doesn't actually rate what he has. So his approach is probably influenced by that. I think you can give them time all you want, what you can't give them is extra ability.

I just think we are chasing our tails. None of this is new, the lack of attacking quality has been evident for years. Initially plastered over by Kane and Son's quality but at this point those players have gone and we are left with prospects and not even particularly high end prospects and we wonder why it doesn't actually work.

I'm happy enough with Frank getting moved on, I just know that the genesis of our problems will still be present and in 6 months time we'll still be debating why we lack finesse in our attacking play.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We are masters of that and fail every time other than Ange and even in that was a failure!!
I wouldn't even mind if we did a Chelsea and won cups ( I don't like how they did it) but they have had as many managers and won more
I cannot with this club......doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Madness

I really, really, really don't see how 5th in PL and then winning the Europa League could be considered anything other than a massive success?

 

[Muttley]

We are in a rebuilding phase post Kane and Son.

I agree with your post, but I would say that Bentancur has been getting back to his solid performances again. The last two games he’s done well. Nothing out of this world, just competent at this level and not making mistakes. Outside of the defense and Bentancur you can’t really say that about anyone else!

Frank needs time. He’s got Bentancur back. He’s got Odobert playing well. He’s even got Tel looking half decent. Baby steps. Need a couple of years of rebuilding.

I think Porro is well worth a mention. He's been outstanding recently.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think Porro is well worth a mention. He's been outstanding recently.

And another that we have to be very careful with in terms of his workload. Him and Kudus were likely to be the first cabs off the rank for injury considering their fatigue levels. We also have to remember that Porro played a hell of a lot of football last season.

Wingers, full backs and centre forwards are typically the players who have to do the highest intensity running and the most sprints in a team. We really do need to ensure we have rotation options across all 5 of those positions.

 

[Muttley]

I really, really, really don't see how 5th in PL and then winning the Europa League could be considered anything other than a massive success?

In the same season it would mean a lot more. It would imply a more solid foundation to our football club.

 

[Muttley]

And another that we have to be very careful with in terms of his workload. Him and Kudus were likely to be the first cabs off the rank for injury considering their fatigue levels. We also have to remember that Porro played a hell of a lot of football last season.

Wingers, full backs and centre forwards are typically the players who have to do the highest intensity running and the most sprints in a team. We really do need to ensure we have rotation options across all 5 of those positions.

For me, that's the challenge with Davies. When we were in the ascendency in the first half, he looked really good. By the middle of the second half his side of the pitch was vulnerable and Ben was powerless to do anything against it. He wasn't winning that duel at all so Frank hooked him for Spence.

I think a lot of us would love to see the Porro-Spence rotation option used on the right.

Can we actually do that and promote Davies back to being a really active player? Working with all 4 full-backs would be the ideal.

 

[Lemonade Money]

We therefore need to find a great director of football who has a brilliant model for finding good players at the level below a Premier League Europa League level club (that could be Lange perhaps), and align them with a really clever (probably young) coach with a dynamic way of playing and try to get ourselves back into being considered a bona-fide CL level club again and at that point not make those same mistakes we did last time.

Our best recent coaches are Jol, Redknapp, and Pochettino, but were they the ones that succeeded, because they benefited from the work of a great DoF? Arneson, Commolli, and Mitchell?