• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

*Official Match Thread* Tottenham Hotspur vs Norwich

Spursalot said:
Not sure if serious...


We know who we want to start, but we're not there behind the scenes watching them as they are training and seeing who is ready and who is not..
Click to expand...

I didn't mean it like that although I can see how you could see that.

I meant, all of us see the way we should play, the strengths we have. Like Livermore starting for example. We all know Sandro, Dembele etc are all better and it even showed today, so surely Sandro and Dembele should be the starting two. etc.
 
marcospur2 said:
I agree, my concern though (yours may be different?) is about timing and how the changes are made. It seems like we make a change and the whole system/structure of the team's play gets completely lost. I don't want AVB to be too rigid, but the changes he makes have to have more clarity. That may be about walking before you can run in recognition that it will take time. Indeed, it is not so much about how the system is constituted but about how the key elements work together and it is that where things are not quite working yet (not helped I will concede by instability in personnel because of the window etc).
Click to expand...

Thats exactly it. We have spent the summer trying to condition them to play his way, then he changes it to something else, then changes it back again.

Im all for flexibility, but surely that can only come when the base system is employed, accepted and understood. Switching around just causes confusion in the meantime.

WBA as the example - it wasnt even forced upon him as such - a straight Ade/Defoe or Sigurdsson/VDV switch would have been like for like instead of going 442
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I must be missing something. What was wrong with that?
Click to expand...

It was the wrong answer to highlight but for pages, Golfball was insulting and winding up other posters very aggressively. My PERSONAL straw snapped. So agreed Gilzean, it was the wrong example, but Golfball knows what I'm talking about. Apologies for not calling one of the numerous examples which were clearer and far more accurate; I hold my hand up there, wrong example. Thanks for pointing it out mate, I need to be clearer.
 
Mumorn said:
I didn't mean it like that although I can see how you could see that.

I meant, all of us see the way we should play, the strengths we have. Like Livermore starting for example. We all know Sandro, Dembele etc are all better and it even showed today, so surely Sandro and Dembele should be the starting two. etc.
Click to expand...

The international break is key.

Hopefully no one important gets injured (would be terrible luck after waiting for the window to close) and also hopefully people like Ade get to stay and get in shape/into the new swing of things
 
Mumorn said:
I didn't mean it like that although I can see how you could see that.

I meant, all of us see the way we should play, the strengths we have. Like Livermore starting for example. We all know Sandro, Dembele etc are all better and it even showed today, so surely Sandro and Dembele should be the starting two. etc.
Click to expand...


Ah right, that's fair enough.


I'm pretty sure Dembele and Sandro will be our standard CM two as the season progresses. Though i thought Dembele got a knock against United and was a doubt coming into this..
 
thfcsteff said:
Did you really stop reading or did you carry on? Funny comment considering what I went on to say...by the way, like it or not, he is a full international...I won't bother repeating what I said after you stopped reading. if you're motivated, check it out. Might surprise you mate ...:ross::-"
Click to expand...

but you like livermore..you think he deserves a place in our squad. u try and justify it with some irrelevance that because hoddson has given him 5 minutes that backs it up...we are tottenham. we are the 4th biggest club in the biggest leadgue in the world and we have this guy....the rugby tackle he did to give away the freekick that lead to their goal brioke my heart. please stop.
 
joey55 said:
We were pretty fantastic before Bale was even in the side. We were even brilliant when Modric had a broken leg and before VDV was at the club. I just think people totally over complicate things. Nothing falls apart by losing a player or 2. We have good runs and bad runs, but as long as we buy good players and ask them to play to their strengths, we'll be fine. This is essentially why there is such a clear correlation between the money spent of wages/transfers and success. Buy good players, ask them to play in way they enjoy and are good at. You just need a manager who can recognize good players, motivate them and know what their keys strengths are and play in a way that makes the most of these strengths.

AVB may well turn out to be like that. I'm sure he isn't as stuck to a system or philosophy that our fans think he is. At the end of the day, football really is a simple game and all the planning and meticulous attention to detail in the world, wont make up for a common sense approach, that motivates players and gets them doing what they enjoy and are good at. I'm genuinely not even interested in reading most tactical analysis and system based theories etc, as so little of it is ever founded in any substance and rarely reflects what actually has been happening on the pitch.

I watched West Ham batter Fulham today. The tactic was far more effective than anything else I've seen employed this season. It was hoofing the ball to Carroll. It worked as he's really amazing at winning the ball in the air, and Fat Sam has noticed that. Fulham literally could do nothing to stop it, much like Utd couldn't handle Fellaini. I'm not saying I want us to play like that, but just pointing out the truth about real tactics and how they should be employed and not the pretentious crap we read about on message boards that simply doesn't reflect what really happens in actual real life football games. We've got fast, explosive players, lets play in way that exploits that more often.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from and how you look and think about tactics. I think mutch of what you say is right, but to me it felt like we needed to take another step. Then it may well be that AVB is too big a step, maybe we should not hire someone who fundamentally believe in a totally different way to play. But as you mention hopefully AVB is so good that he can take the best from both styles and make something good out of it in the end.

I think it's fun to debatera with someone on this forum that does not directly go bananas just because you do not really see things the same way.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Thats exactly it. We have spent the summer trying to condition them to play his way, then he changes it to something else, then changes it back again.

Im all for flexibility, but surely that can only come when the base system is employed, accepted and understood. Switching around just causes confusion in the meantime.

WBA as the example - it wasnt even forced upon him as such - a straight Ade/Defoe or Sigurdsson/VDV switch would have been like for like instead of going 442
Click to expand...

That is the only reason I have mentioned the AVB of last year - not to cause a row or division but to speak to a problem as I see it. Sometimes a bit too clever when in fact the system he wants to implement is worth persisting with, particularly as we need to do what you suggest in embedding it so it is more reflexive amongst the players. The fine tweaking can come later and i will be very happy with that.

On 442 he did that today as well, at the time I assume Defoe would drop back into the Siggy role (rightly or wrongly) but we shifted to a 442?

On another matter it may also be that we lacked a bit of leadership today, someone who can really take hold of the game and help the manager on the pitch?
 
Steed Train said:
Has avb done a post match interview ? Found one from Hughton. Curious to hear his take on the game
Click to expand...

“We didnt play well in the 1st half. In the 2nd half we had to fight. We needed to take responsibility” He also commented on Mousa’s debut: “Great finish from Mousa. Improved our game when he came on.”
 
sefnot said:
but you like livermore..you think he deserves a place in our squad. u try and justify it with some irrelevance that because hoddson has given him 5 minutes that backs it up...we are tottenham. we are the 4th biggest club in the biggest leadgue in the world and we have this guy....the rugby tackle he did to give away the freekick that lead to their goal brioke my heart. please stop.
Click to expand...


Yes. He does have a place in our squad. Did you complain last season, or are you complaining because suddenly, as opposed to being a Dm in a side which had Modric and VdV, he is now a DM in a side which currently lacks a player of that nature? Note: he is not Luka or VdV. Do not look to him for creativity. Ask the likes of Sigurdsson to show up and take the ball 5 yards away when he has it and don't force him to be what he isn't. My comment about him being an international was in response to your comment about him 'not having any youth caps', so that one's on you!

If you bothered to read what I wrote, you'll have seen what I thought today. I'm not going to defend his cheap free-kick (he was being obstructed but needs to be smarter there) but your fixation on him as the reason we drew again will only leave you missing greater issues at hand IMHO. So, errr, please stop! There are other issues, such as the selection to start with...
 
stelan said:
I understand where you are coming from and how you look and think about tactics. I think mutch of what you say is right, but to me it felt like we needed to take another step. Then it may well be that AVB is too big a step, maybe we should not hire someone who fundamentally believe in a totally different way to play. But as you mention hopefully AVB is so good that he can take the best from both styles and make something good out of it in the end.

I think it's fun to debatera with someone on this forum that does not directly go bananas just because you do not really see things the same way.
Click to expand...

For me joey55 is absolutely wrong, in that tactics are very important and often arent especially simple.

I also think joey55 is absolutely correct in that people often take tactics way to far and common sense should prevail.

I agree stelan, I wanted something 'more' than what we were. I wanted a base way of playing, something more embedded/routine like that we could use as a foundation for performances and squad building.

I do think it was a failing for Redknapp, without our select 11 things could unravel very quickly and I felt that it was because we played to much on intuition/chemistry and that greater organisation would have seen us more consistent.

Also that a base "plan" would have meant we had a more rounded/suitable squad.
 
Re: Bad substitution two weeks in a row

the previous three years have been a mini golden era.

Unfortunately Moonlit, you may well be right - but we didn't win a cup in any of them, and treated the Europa league and the League Cup with contempt. I hope that AVB treats the Cups with more respect than Harry.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Mumorn said:
Watching the game I thought Friedel was class and kept us in the game. His save from the header in the first half was really good, couldn't do nothing about the goal, don't think even Lloris would have saved that even though I'm sure some of you would believe he should have saved it, caught it, did a rolie polie and booted upfield to score our second goal.

Our defence really isn't that good, I don't know if its because we are missing King (even at his worst last year we didn't look this bad at the back). I don't know if it's some defensive issue AVB is pursuing with our team, I just don't know but they need to sort it out because a team like City or Man Utd or even Chelsea would absolutely tear it apart.

Dembele and Sandro need to start our next game. I don't know what AVB's infatuation is with Livermore but it needs to stop. I sort of wish it was Livermore getting sent off today just so we don't have to endure him the next game. As for Hudd's sending off, he really didn't look bothered coming on, didn't really look like he wanted to be out there playing and didn't care that he was sent off, oh well, you go in two footed it's going to happen, defend him all you like, if Howson went in on Hudd like that and got a yellow you'd all be fudging going for the refs head.

Defoe needs a rest, and by rest I mean he needs to be dropped. He offers nothing but constant moaning if someone doesn't pass to him. I don't think he's hit the target since the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game and that was lucky itself. Adebayor needs to start the next game with Sigurdsson or even Dempsey off of him for GHod sake, it's getting embarrassing now.

Come on Spurs, sort it out.
Click to expand...

Im starting to form the impression that AVBs system is either in or its out. By which I mean its all or nothing, there isnt an inbetween.

The front 3 have to 'get it', or else the midfield will not work. The Midfield need to 'get it', or else the defence will not work. The Defence need to 'get it' or else nothing will work.

We aim to play it out of defence, which means the midfield need to make themselves available. We want a fluid front 3 pushed up the pitch - they need to create opportunities for the midfield to find them. We want a high defensive line tt squeeze play into their half - the midfield is key to this working - if they leave the defence exposed it is stuffed...

...Essentially I think all of it is linked, and all of it needs to come together to make it work (against WBA I would say the midfield and defence were fine (until VDVwent off) and the front 3 were the bottle neck) or none of it will.

Trying to take on the whole thing at once is going to be tough in the short term IMO, and might explain the apparent cluelessness of our play at times.
Click to expand...

We need to be able to retain the ball to maintain a suitably high line and to do that we have to be able to pass accurately. Without Modrić, we haven't been able to do that so well so far. I think AVB is going to have to alter his vision, with our having failed to acquire Moutinho. It'll be interesting to see how well he is able to adapt the side.
 
marcospur2 said:
That is the only reason I have mentioned the AVB of last year - not to cause a row or division but to speak to a problem as I see it. Sometimes a bit too clever when in fact the system he wants to implement is worth persisting with, particularly as we need to do what you suggest in embedding it so it is more reflexive amongst the players. The fine tweaking can come later and i will be very happy with that.

On 442 he did that today as well, at the time I assume Defoe would drop back into the Siggy role (rightly or wrongly) but we shifted to a 442?

On another matter it may also be that we lacked a bit of leadership today, someone who can really take hold of the game and help the manager on the pitch?
Click to expand...

I didnt watch the game today, we were celebrating my daughters birthday.

The best I could do was a combination of this thread and the awful Matt Le Tissier (who hates us) on SSN.

My hope is that its the case of getting his squad and team together - right now he is probably still testing and assessing things. It is only a hope though, if he persists it will become a concern.

Leadership issues? King and VDV were big personalities on the field for us, and with some new guys perhaps it is a problem. Hopefully not a lasting one but time will tell.
 
mudshark said:
We need to be able to retain the ball to maintain a suitably high line and to do that we have to be able to pass accurately. Without Modrić, we haven't been able to do that so well so far. I think AVB is going to have to alter his vision, with our having failed to acquire Moutinho. It'll be interesting to see how well he is able to adapt the side.
Click to expand...

One means to compensate for a perceived lack of accurate passing might be to improve passing options.

If players move better then simple passes will find them, it need not be a technique based solution.

Incidentally, the midfield is only one part of the issue as I see it - not the whole problem.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
For me joey55 is absolutely wrong, in that tactics are very important and often arent especially simple.

I also think joey55 is absolutely correct in that people often take tactics way to far and common sense should prevail.

I agree stelan, I wanted something 'more' than what we were. I wanted a base way of playing, something more embedded/routine like that we could use as a foundation for performances and squad building.

I do think it was a failing for Redknapp, without our select 11 things could unravel very quickly and I felt that it was because we played to much on intuition/chemistry and that greater organisation would have seen us more consistent.

Also that a base "plan" would have meant we had a more rounded/suitable squad.
Click to expand...

I think we have pretty similar thoughts on how the change would benefit the team, but I also think that joey55 is right when he says that you should try to exploit the extraordinary abilities that some players possess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back