-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Next Spurs Manager v.2
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
Most posters on here I would imagine. It's all about appearance and perception.
Former Barcelona cult hero Dutch acronymanager of Ajax
cool or ginger former Leicester City and Northern Irish clogger?braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
It seems overwhelmingly likely to me that all managers we bring in will have a chance of success and a chance of failure. There is no sure thing. There are no solutions that we know will work. It's all risk and potential.
So we bring in the one with the highest potential and the lowest risk, or the best balance between those.
Were Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Rodgers, Martinez etc "the right man for the job" when they were signed? In hindsight, yes. But then and there those clubs made decisions made on incomplete information accepting a risk making the best decision they could.
Difference being that all the managers that you have named were each respective clubs first choice.
Most fans wouldn't say that they would prefer Tim to FDB or Rafa but beyond those two there's an argument that we're changing managers for changes sake.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
All of them? Really? How do you know?
Most of the time these things are done through back channels and agents. How do you know that those clubs didn't sound out other options that didn't pan out before going for those managers? Would it have made a difference if they did?
Two of our more successful managers under Levy have been Jol and Redknapp. Managers that got the job during the season when no one else was available and we were in a bit of a pickle. Some of our clearest "that's who we want, go" have been Hoddle, Ramos and AVB.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Any more than we've given our managers?
For me Levy has again and again given his managers and sporting directors a lot of trust. You need look no further than the difference in player types signed under Comolli compared to Redknapp to see this. Last summer, despite rumours that Levy would have been fine seeing AVB leave to PSG because of growing issues, Baldini was brought in seemingly at AVB's recommendation and the pair of them as a part of the transfer committee were allowed to spend a huge amount of money.
Sherwood has even said that Levy offered him money to spend in January, despite the more temporary nature of Sherwood's appointment.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I think the fallacy of the "get the number one target, even if it means waiting, give him 100% support, that will work" argument is nicely illustrated by the Moyes to United example.
I don't think anyone could argue with the credentials of Ferguson as a footballing man. No one can claim that he didn't know enough about the club, the league or the prospective manager. This was their choice, their chosen one. He was given a 6 year contract, as United highlighted how they - the club that doesn't just sack managers, now had made their choice. And the one making the choice was Ferguson.
Utter failure, almost immediately.
Even if Levy was a lot more knowledgeable about football, even if our knowledge about our managerial targets was better, even if we as a club were in a stronger position there would be no sure things. No aromaticity in a first choice succeeding. But this is the approach we have to take, we're even supposed to be willing to wait for a full season to be able to do it. Instead of just going for whoever seems to be the best available candidate?
This to me is even more surprising when people are mentioning FdB as one such candidate to wait for. A manager people keep making emotional arguments to support. A manager unproven outside the Dutch league. A manager unproven outside the biggest club in the Dutch league, a club that happens to be his club, a club that loves him back.
And it's even more surprising considering the success of Rodgers and Martinez in the PL this season. Two managers we have been linked with in the past, two managers some argued for over AVB for sure, but not someone that was then talked of as "that number 1 target". Because they hadn't proven themselves to be at that level (yet).
To me anyone that would be worth waiting for, people like Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, Ancelotti, LvG are all people that most likely wouldn't come to us anyway. And we could wait for years in decline waiting for someone like that. Or we could get on with it, go for the best available option, and then at some point if a manager like that - a true #1 target - became available? Well, then make a decision and if they really are such a massive and obvious choice then sack whoever it is that's in charge right now.
I don't think anyone could argue with the credentials of Ferguson as a footballing man. No one can claim that he didn't know enough about the club, the league or the prospective manager. This was their choice, their chosen one. He was given a 6 year contract, as United highlighted how they - the club that doesn't just sack managers, now had made their choice. And the one making the choice was Ferguson.
Utter failure, almost immediately.
Even if Levy was a lot more knowledgeable about football, even if our knowledge about our managerial targets was better, even if we as a club were in a stronger position there would be no sure things. No aromaticity in a first choice succeeding. But this is the approach we have to take, we're even supposed to be willing to wait for a full season to be able to do it. Instead of just going for whoever seems to be the best available candidate?
This to me is even more surprising when people are mentioning FdB as one such candidate to wait for. A manager people keep making emotional arguments to support. A manager unproven outside the Dutch league. A manager unproven outside the biggest club in the Dutch league, a club that happens to be his club, a club that loves him back.
And it's even more surprising considering the success of Rodgers and Martinez in the PL this season. Two managers we have been linked with in the past, two managers some argued for over AVB for sure, but not someone that was then talked of as "that number 1 target". Because they hadn't proven themselves to be at that level (yet).
To me anyone that would be worth waiting for, people like Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, Ancelotti, LvG are all people that most likely wouldn't come to us anyway. And we could wait for years in decline waiting for someone like that. Or we could get on with it, go for the best available option, and then at some point if a manager like that - a true #1 target - became available? Well, then make a decision and if they really are such a massive and obvious choice then sack whoever it is that's in charge right now.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Didn't FdB turn down a move to Liverpool last summer?
They were never given full backing though, Levy couldn't bring himself to give up some control.
Liverpool were horribly inconsistent last season yet the club had set out their stall, said they would give rogers plenty of time to implement his plan and its paid dividends. We had a similar opportunity and instead removed the coach. I know that AVB also half quite himself going by the stories but did Levy say to him you're my man. I'm backing you fully, your philosophy your ideas? No he didn't as evidenced by the conversations about Adebayor who they apparently fell out over.
Total backing would have allowed him to eliminate the dissenters and leave a squad committed to his philosophy.
until that happens we will only proceed so far.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
May not have had the best CVs but they had the most aligned vision and philosophies etc that the club wanted to implement. Thats my whole point regarding the best CV doesnt always mean the right man for the job. There is a balance between instant success and long term success i.e. you dont want to wait five years for success but at the same time you dont want to bring in success at the risk of compromising the long term success of the club.
The next appointment will make or break the club (for a while) in my view. It seems there are two or three candidates at the moment, FDB, Poch and perhaps Bentez... what happens if we dont get any of them? do we then go for someone just for the sake of it?
ps - I thought Martinez was perfect for our club before AVB took over and he was on the top of my list simply because of how he viewed football, how his Wigan side, whilst struggling, still played to his philosophies and the potential was all there to see.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Backing someone is not a guarantee of success though and if the rumours of AVB's problems behind the scenes at Spurs are true, backing him even further would have been suicide.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
What you're saying just doesn't fit with reality imo.
Since you mention Liverpool. Rodgers still hasn't signed a new contract, part of that is reportedly that he wants more of the power on transfer decisions. Because like Levy, like most sensible owners, the Liverpool owners won't just hand over the key to the club to a newly appointed manager and let him do as he pleases.
There's even been reports that Sturridge wasn't "his signing": http://www.givemesport.com/447761-liverpool-manager-didnt-want-sturridge-transfer
Also, this is the Liverpool that's gone through Benitez, Hodgson and Dalglish (a club legend) before Rodgers got the job. There's no "get a #1 target, then trust him 100% whatever happens" philosophy here.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I agree fully that it's not just about the CV. And I do think a club in our position has to take some risk and going for somewhat unproven managers with potential, at least sometimes.
No, we don't go for someone just for the sake of it. We go for the next person on the list of managers. People we believe will have the potential to become great. Two years ago no one would have talked about Poch, a year before that FdB would have been a quaint idea and I think Rodgers and Martinez would have been the same. There are many talented managers around. Not just the 3 currently the top of our (mine and yours) list after LvG right now.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
I think we would get either one of those aforementioned three but the two who would seem most appropriate would be Poch or FdB - both with philosophies and the hunger perhaps to succeed. Benny would be someone for instant success so he would be the third and last back up id expect. Following those, I dont have a clue but thats just me, im not exactly someone who scouts for Managers etc. What this wil be though is an extremely interesting summer, world cup, transfers and a new Manager... will be like a new lease of life etc.
Lily White
Clive Wilson
Martinez turned them down before Rodgers was appointed as well.
SPURSphenomenon
Kevin Scott
I completely agree with these points. Poch and FDB will need to be given time to imprint their philosphy into the club. Benitez would not be a bad third choice at all. Tbh, i'd be very happy with any one of those appointments.
sc25
Banned
So, who would be out there/available next year? As things stand, Rafa's contract would be up then, and he may want to stay for the CL next season, after which Napoli may struggle to qualify again. If Soton have a rough year (which seems possible given that some of their players will likely move), how would we feel? Would Poch still be high on our list then, even though he's the 'clear and obvious target' right now? If Poyet has a banner year at Sunderland might he be more in the frame than he is now? Same with Pulis. If Hull win the cup and finish high next year might Bruce be considered? Could one of the Madrid managers come available? Anybody else jump out that may be available next year rather than this, either here or on the continent? Would there be better options and more obvious candidates next year rather than this?
Last edited: