Next Spurs manager mega-thread

[mick cooper]

I am actually both thank you, but its a bit patronising to suggest that anyone under 40 can not debate without getting hysterical.

look at the bilge that gets spouted on here on a regular basis, its rare that the more mature posters post crap of such a puerile nature.
There are exceptions however, like there are to any rule.

I can only comment on what I see, and some of the stuff posted on here recently has been shameful.

 

[mick cooper]

I'd be happy at that if proven true. We can easily remove the remaining 'boys club' if Redknapp takes Bond and Jordan with him to England, and can start fresh with Rodgers and build for the future with new facilities and the stadium on the way. I'd be more excited about Spurs future with all that in place than I have done for some years.

Just like the Chelsea fans, who were all getting tumescent when AVB took over?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I call people out on this "give a young manager a chance" route

If any of you were Daniel Levy, and you were going to make a decision that potentially (in next 3 years) impacts about 200M+ in club funds, would you really be so gung ho and eager to appoint a Rodgers/Martinez manager?

Neither of these guys have ever (to my knowledge)

- Managed a top half PL team (far less CL challenger)
- Won a trophy
- Managed a team in European competition
- Managed players of quality/wages/ego of VDV/Ade/Modric/Bale
- Had the expectation pressure that Tottenham brings

Exactly what do they bring to the table? that they seem like nice guys and try to play decent football at a lower level club?

Whatever you might want to say about AVB, he ticks a hell of a lot more of those boxes ...

To flip it on its head, lets say - for arguments sake - Rodgers is more than good enough to excel at all criteria, he just hasnt at this point been able to prove it.

If everyone took that attitude the only chance he ever has at a big job is if he takes Swansea all the way to europe - not likely.

So, at some point, someone has to look at him and say "this guy looks the real deal" and give him a chance. Else his career will never amount to anything and the same old boys will share the big jobs...

I dont know that Rodgers can be that good, but Ive seen enough in him to think he warrants a chance.

 

[Rossi22]

I call people out on this "give a young manager a chance" route

If any of you were Daniel Levy, and you were going to make a decision that potentially (in next 3 years) impacts about 200M+ in club funds, would you really be so gung ho and eager to appoint a Rodgers/Martinez manager?

Neither of these guys have ever (to my knowledge)

- Managed a top half PL team (far less CL challenger)
- Won a trophy
- Managed a team in European competition
- Managed players of quality/wages/ego of VDV/Ade/Modric/Bale
- Had the expectation pressure that Tottenham brings

Exactly what do they bring to the table? that they seem like nice guys and try to play decent football at a lower level club?

Whatever you might want to say about AVB, he ticks a hell of a lot more of those boxes ...

It's only in this country that people feel this way. If Martinez had been managing Zaragoza for example and had done well then he'd be getting taken on by the likes of Valencia/Atletico/Seville etc by now. If Moyes had been managing Fiorentina to the same standard he's been managing Everton then he'd have gotten the gig at one of the Milan clubs or Juve atleast 5 years ago, he'd then have won a couple of trophies and being talked about by English football fans as a top manager and someone we should appoint. If Rodgers was born Portuguese then there's no reason why he wouldn't have had the same success as AVB has had upto this date, afterall their coaching career paths were more or less identical, but because Rodgers hasn't been handed a big job yet then people say he can't compare to AVB? It's only in England that people have this attitude that pretty much the only way of judging a manager's credentials is by looking at their c.v.

 

[VolSpur]

I'm telling you the more i think about this Rodgers situation, the more it feels like its a replica of what woolwich did with Arsene.

Brought in an unproven manager who likes to pass it around. Got new training facilities. Bought a new stadium..

Levy knows we're never going to be able to compete (spending wise) with the likes of the 2 manchester clubs and the only way to beat them is to play a barca style passing game*. Rodgers has shown he's able to work with younger/cheaper players and get the best out of them, to play together, resulting in one of the best passing teams in the PL.


Rodgers is one of the few managers we could get who i could see with us for the next 10+ years.




*or master hoofball ala stoke.

 

[chancer]

I call people out on this "give a young manager a chance" route

If any of you were Daniel Levy, and you were going to make a decision that potentially (in next 3 years) impacts about 200M+ in club funds, would you really be so gung ho and eager to appoint a Rodgers/Martinez manager?

Neither of these guys have ever (to my knowledge)

- Managed a top half PL team (far less CL challenger)
- Won a trophy
- Managed a team in European competition
- Managed players of quality/wages/ego of VDV/Ade/Modric/Bale
- Had the expectation pressure that Tottenham brings

Exactly what do they bring to the table? that they seem like nice guys and try to play decent football at a lower level club?

Whatever you might want to say about AVB, he ticks a hell of a lot more of those boxes ...

I don't think it's right that Rodgers and Martinez should be considered interchangeable in this argument. Rodgers has had a couple of failures as a young manager, before a great promotion season and magnificent first PL season. Meanwhile, Martinez has been a success at both of his clubs, arguably laying the foundations that later helped Rodgers, before doing a ridiculously good job over several years at an unfashionable, crappy PL club that should be in the 3rd Tier.

If that's true then I don't think Martinez - despite his youth - is fairly classed as an "inexperienced young manager". I think he is an "early mid-career" manager at this stage. 5 or 6 seasons I think it is, and yet to fail. So I think your argument is actually about Rodgers, not Martinez.

On that, I am forced to agree after much agonising about it. We'd be basing Rodgers on one season in the top league. At the end of the day, it's just not enough for me. Martinez though, I'd take a punt on as he seems a great balance of "young and energetic" and yet, experienced. Mini-Mourinhio anyone? There are similarities in personality I think. The heart of Jose, the football of the Spanish school and 3 seasons watching Wenger, SAF, Mancini and Redknapp at close quarters. I say there's something in that mix that fits Spurs right now.

 

[EJG]

So, at some point, someone has to look at him and say "this guy looks the real deal" and give him a chance. Else his career will never amount to anything and the same old boys will share the big jobs...

I dont know that Rodgers can be that good, but Ive seen enough in him to think he warrants a chance.

Agreed, and sometimes, stealing a march on the rest and being the club to take a chance (on a player or manager) can reap big dividends.

He might come in and flop, but equally, we might decide he's not worth the risk and end up watching him go on to be a big success somewhere else and lament him as "the one that got away".

fudge it, let's take a chance, at least it'll be exciting

It's only in this country that people feel this way.

Good point, exactly how Allegri got the Milan job. His top flight experience was a couple of decent seasons with Cagliari, and he went on to take Milan to a league title. The fact that they take a chance on young managers also means they have a big pool of home grown talent to choose from to be national team boss.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Thsi is it. Wenger looked a total punt at the time, but I bet Arsenal fans are glad Dein gave him an opportunity

 

[Yossarian]

I don't think it's right that Rodgers and Martinez should be considered interchangeable in this argument. Rodgers has had a couple of failures as a young manager, before a great promotion season and magnificent first PL season. Meanwhile, Martinez has been a success at both of his clubs, arguably laying the foundations that later helped Rodgers, before doing a ridiculously good job over several years at an unfashionable, crappy PL club that should be in the 3rd Tier.

If that's true then I don't think Martinez - despite his youth - is fairly classed as an "inexperienced young manager". I think he is an "early mid-career" manager at this stage. 5 or 6 seasons I think it is, and yet to fail. So I think your argument is actually about Rodgers, not Martinez.

On that, I am forced to agree after much agonising about it. We'd be basing Rodgers on one season in the top league. At the end of the day, it's just not enough for me. Martinez though, I'd take a punt on as he seems a great balance of "young and energetic" and yet, experienced. Mini-Mourinhio anyone? There are similarities in personality I think. The heart of Jose, the football of the Spanish school and 3 seasons watching Wenger, SAF, Mancini and Redknapp at close quarters. I say there's something in that mix that fits Spurs right now.

I'd take Martinez over Rodgers all day long

 

[Gutter Boy]

I call people out on this "give a young manager a chance" route

If any of you were Daniel Levy, and you were going to make a decision that potentially (in next 3 years) impacts about 200M+ in club funds, would you really be so gung ho and eager to appoint a Rodgers/Martinez manager?

Neither of these guys have ever (to my knowledge)

- Managed a top half PL team (far less CL challenger)
- Won a trophy
- Managed a team in European competition
- Managed players of quality/wages/ego of VDV/Ade/Modric/Bale
- Had the expectation pressure that Tottenham brings

Exactly what do they bring to the table? that they seem like nice guys and try to play decent football at a lower level club?

Whatever you might want to say about AVB, he ticks a hell of a lot more of those boxes ...

Agree.

Picking a manager should be like buying players. It's great to pick up a Rodgers or Martinez as an understudy/#2 who might come through in a few years time. But a club our size needs ready made first team players as well - a Kloop, van Gaal, Blanc, Low, Capello etc.

 

[Rossi22]

If a wonderkid became available I'd want us to take a "chance" on him rather than thinking we'll leave it and see what happens, only to regret it in the not so distant future. What is a "club of our size" supposed to mean? Why didn't Barca hire one of the names you listed?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

To dare is to do....

 

[Gutter Boy]

If a wonderkid became available I'd want us to take a "chance" on him rather than thinking we'll leave it and see what happens, only to regret it in the not so distant future. What is a "club of our size" supposed to mean? Why didn't Barca hire one of the names you listed?

It's still a bit like replacing Modric with Joe Allen or Jonny Howson, rather than say Javi Martinez.

Barcelona don't need a manager (and managers often don't work at Barcelona). They have such a strong system/DoF that they only really need a coach.

 

[Raziel]

Thsi is it. Wenger looked a total punt at the time, but I bet Arsenal fans are glad Dein gave him an opportunity

When the Scum took a punt on Wenger, the stakes were VERY different to today.

CL or no CL = 30M+ per season, any new manager will probably spend 30-70M on players over 2-3 years, failure is very expensive.

I like you guys on this board, but quite honestly wouldn't let you without a hundred miles of a fiscal decision that impacted me based on the number of "hey let's take a punt" type responses, you really take a punt on a 200M+ decision?

 

[Rossi22]

No, let's be straight here, they're foreign so they're better. It's just far easier to get into a big job overseas, just look at the route each of those names you listed had to getting a top job. The only clubs in England that can realistically compete at the top year in year out and win things are Utd, City, Chelsea and Arsenal. None of those would take a chance on a young current PL manager doing well albeit at a smaller club, they'll simply look abroad and appoint someone with a nice looking c.v. The top clubs in Spain, Italy, Germany, France etc do not have this mentality, they'll quite happily appoint someone from within the club or one doing well lower down the table - ergo the list of names you just gave me.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

When the Scum took a punt on Wenger, the stakes were VERY different to today.

CL or no CL = 30M+ per season, any new manager will probably spend 30-70M on players over 2-3 years, failure is very expensive.

I like you guys on this board, but quite honestly wouldn't let you without a hundred miles of a fiscal decision that impacted me based on the number of "hey let's take a punt" type responses, you really take a punt on a 200M+ decision?

You might have a point if we were CL regulars and were completely reliant on the money.

Also if a manager like Rodgers/Martinez was a guaranteed failure.

Neither is true. We are actually in a better position to take the risk (for potential reward) than the likes of Arsenal/Chelsea etc

 

[Raziel]

No, let's be straight here, they're foreign so they're better. It's just far easier to get into a big job overseas, just look at the route each of those names you listed had to getting a top job. The only clubs in England that can realistically compete at the top year in year out and win things are Utd, City, Chelsea and Arsenal. None of those would take a chance on a young current PL manager doing well albeit at a smaller club, they'll simply look abroad and appoint someone with a nice looking c.v. The top clubs in Spain, Italy, Germany, France etc do not have this mentality, they'll quite happily appoint someone from within the club or one doing well lower down the table - ergo the list of names you just gave me.

Might be right, but then again, name a successful English manager in the last 15 years? why again would you take a punt?

 

[Raziel]

You might have a point if we were CL regulars and were completely reliant on the money.

Also if a manager like Rodgers/Martinez was a guaranteed failure.

Neither is true. We are actually in a better position to take the risk (for potential reward) than the likes of Arsenal/Chelsea etc

We may not be reliant on the money, but I think everyone knows the situation

- The Sky 4 monopoly has been broken up for the first time in a decade
- It will resume within a year or two, 4 teams will become the main 4, money from CL will allow them to cement their spot
- Is now the time to take the punt when failure might mean another decade out of the top 4?

For me the Rodgers/Martinez play is just a little too much planning on winning the lottery, yeah we could have the romance of young manager, first chance at big club (in the form of sleeping giant), leads them to decade of success … it's Spurs, much more likely to end in tears ...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Its Spurs.... Damned if you do - damned if you dont...

Id rather go for it, follow our principles more, than try and play the numbers. Id rather appoint a man than a CV.

At some point Capello was a nobody who needed a chance, Mourinho, Hiddink...

Rossi is right, its a very English mentality to look only for "proven" managers.

 

[harr1984]

Also, we have a lot of quality and very good players at our club now.

Yes to some extent taking on a Martinez/Rodgers type would be a risk, but you would have to actually be an extremely average manager with our resources and squad not to at least be hovering around the CL places.

It's not like we have a load of inflated egos in our dressing room so you can't really fire the 'do they have the experience to handle big egos' question and clearly Martinez/Rodgers are at the very least good managers who play our style of football and whilst their remit would involve CL qualification failure to do so wouldn't be a sackable offence on its own, the pressure isn't quite as big as the traditional top 4 clubs.

So actually, how much of a risk would employing a young potentially great manager really be?